26 Nov
2008
26 Nov
'08
1:43 p.m.
Actually, it's not clear to me if any of the
bridges supported that command.
I don't know of any MFM/RLL controllers that supported scsi inquire.
ESDI was the first 5" drive interface to support geometry inquiry
which is needed to make inquiry work w/o the host specifying
the drive geometry to the bridge board.
26 Nov
26 Nov
2:24 p.m.
Al Kossow wrote:
Nor me. The way I understand it, there was SASI, then there was "early SCSI",
and then eventually the Inquiry command crept in and became part of the Common
Command Set. All the bridge boards I've seen are from the SASI or early SCSI
days...
Actually,
it's not clear to me if any of the
bridges supported that command.
I don't know of any MFM/RLL controllers that supported scsi inquire. ESDI was the first 5" drive interface to support
geometry inquiry
which is needed to make inquiry work w/o the host specifying
the drive geometry to the bridge board.
Although as I recall the Adaptec reserves the first track of the drive in
order to store geometry info, which the user supplies at format-time; it just
lacks the Inquiry command itself, even though the necessary smarts are there
(at least for a formatted drive).
I think *technically* it might be possible to add Inquiry into the Adaptec's
firmware, but in reality it'd be a pig of a job unless someone magically has
firmware source and the necessary compilation environment :-)
cheers
Jules
3:39 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
Nor me. The way I understand it, there was SASI, then
there was "early
SCSI", and then eventually the Inquiry command crept in and became
part of the Common Command Set. All the bridge boards I've seen are
from the SASI or early SCSI days...
The INQUIRY command is listed in what I assume
is the original SCSI
standard (ANSI X3.131-1986). It is given this notation: "Command
implementation is required for SCSI devices that support
device-independent self-configuring software." So the standard gave it
somewhat more than "optional" status, implying that this would be the
standard way for a device to send its configuration data to the driver
software, if it wanted to.
How soon devices and drivers started to use this is another matter.
--
Dick Hadsell 914-259-6320 Fax: 914-259-6499
Reply-to: hadsell at blueskystudios.com
Blue Sky Studios http://www.blueskystudios.com
44 South Broadway, White Plains, NY 10601
3:51 p.m.
Richard Hadsell wrote:
The INQUIRY command is listed in what I assume is the
original SCSI
standard (ANSI X3.131-1986). It is given this notation: "Command
implementation is required for SCSI devices that support
device-independent self-configuring software." So the standard gave
it somewhat more than "optional" status, implying that this would be
the standard way for a device to send its configuration data to the
driver software, if it wanted to.
How soon devices and drivers started to use this is another matter.
P.S.: I just
found "The SCSI Bench Reference" (c) 1989, which uses
information from the draft SCSI-2 standard. In this doc it indicates
that the INQUIRY is mandatory, and it spells out the format for standard
data and defines some types of vendor-specific Vital Product Data.
--
Dick Hadsell 914-259-6320 Fax: 914-259-6499
Reply-to: hadsell at blueskystudios.com
Blue Sky Studios http://www.blueskystudios.com
44 South Broadway, White Plains, NY 10601
4:05 p.m.
Richard Hadsell wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:
Hmm. I just checked a ROM dump from one of the ACB4000's and that's dated
1983, so a few years prior to that ANSI standard.
I think that standard does include the CCS though - it's just that SCSI
existed informally (but in serious use) for quite a few years before ANSI
standardization (hence the large number of vintage devices with no Inquiry)
My laserdisc player harks from 1986, incidentally, and even its SCSI data
interface has no Inquiry support - it was just too early, I suppose...
cheers
Jules
Nor me. The way I understand it, there was SASI,
then there was "early
SCSI", and then eventually the Inquiry command crept in and became
part of the Common Command Set. All the bridge boards I've seen are
from the SASI or early SCSI days...
The INQUIRY command is listed in what I assume
is the original SCSI
standard (ANSI X3.131-1986). 
3 Dec
3 Dec
5:25 a.m.
My laserdisc player harks from 1986, incidentally, and
even its SCSI data
interface has no Inquiry support - it was just too early, I suppose...
SCSI LASERDISC?!?!?!?!?! I think there were only RS-232 Laserdiscs?!
I'd love to have a serial-commanded laserdisc hehehe :o)
5:35 a.m.
My laserdisc
player harks from 1986, incidentally, and even its SCSI data
interface has no Inquiry support - it was just too early, I suppose...
SCSI LASERDISC?!?!?!?!?! I think there were only RS-232 Laserdiscs?!
I'd love to have a serial-commanded laserdisc hehehe :o)
5:47 a.m.
Alexandre Souza wrote:
Yep, Philips VP-415, part of the Acorn/BBC Domesday system. It was a modified
version of a different Philips player (VP-412 I believe) that had the addition
of a genlock board and SCSI control logic in a 'slice' beneath the main player.
It retained the RS-232 interface too, but that could only be used for player
control - the SCSI interface let you also pull data from the discs into the
controlling computer. I believe it's the only example of an LVROM drive ever
produced; it was too big and expensive for home use, and within a few years LV
was dying and CD was taking over anyway.
The whole setup's impressive - I've got a nearly-complete copy of the service
manual for the player (along with otherwise-complete docs), and the technology
is pretty advanced for the day. Sadly the players themselves were let down by
poor electronics build quality - the vast majority of them end up being faulty
due to intermittent connections (there's around 20 separate PCBs in the
machine) or bad solder joints.
cheers
Jules
My laserdisc
player harks from 1986, incidentally, and even its SCSI
data interface has no Inquiry support - it was just too early, I
suppose...
SCSI LASERDISC?!?!?!?!?! I think there were only RS-232 Laserdiscs?! 
26 Nov
26 Nov
4:25 p.m.
On 26 Nov 2008 at 18:39, Richard Hadsell wrote:
The INQUIRY command is listed in what I assume is the
original SCSI
standard (ANSI X3.131-1986). It is given this notation: "Command
implementation is required for SCSI devices that support
device-independent self-configuring software." So the standard gave it
somewhat more than "optional" status, implying that this would be the
standard way for a device to send its configuration data to the driver
software, if it wanted to.
That's right--INQUIRY is SCSI; IDENTIFY is ATA.
A lot of the bridge boards were from very early in SCSI history,
where the "standard" hadn't yet set. I've got to go back to my SMS
OMTI bridge board manuals, but I think the drive geometry could be
obtained there by simply reading the bridge board buffer right after
initialization. I'm also trying to remember if the bridge board kept
the information on a reserved sector on the drive.
It's been too long...
Cheers,
Chuck
4:56 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
That's right--INQUIRY is SCSI; IDENTIFY is ATA.
My SCSI docs also show a simple IDENTIFY one-byte message (codes 0x80-0xFF).
--
Dick Hadsell 914-259-6320 Fax: 914-259-6499
Reply-to: hadsell at blueskystudios.com
Blue Sky Studios http://www.blueskystudios.com
44 South Broadway, White Plains, NY 10601
5:35 p.m.
On 26 Nov 2008 at 19:56, Richard Hadsell wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Sure, but it's a message, not a command and its purpose is very
different from the SCSI INQUIRY or ATA IDENTIFY *commands*.
Cheers,
Chuck
That's right--INQUIRY is SCSI; IDENTIFY is
ATA.
My SCSI docs also show a simple IDENTIFY one-byte message (codes 0x80-0xFF).
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