Tony Duell wrote: I agree fully! One thing I seldom find is the documentation that went with the cards. I have been stashing IBM stuff for a while and figure I am just looking far into the future :). I acquired one of the PGA boards and I passed up an opportunity a couple of years ago to get the IBM monitor that went with it. BTW, I am assuming here that what you are referring to as PGC is the same thing I am referring to as PGA. I see them occasionally and will keep you in mind the next time I find one if you like.

Well, I'd prefer genuine IBM cards, if only because they can be trivially kept running. And IBM keyboards are much nicer than most clones :-) I personally think an IBM box with all IBM cards is a somewhat rare machine these days. It may be worth a little more in the future. And then there's the historical aspect. The original set of IBM cards (CGA, MDA, Floppy controller, memory card, etc) were the _first_. The PC/AT serial/parallel adapter was the card that defined the 9-pin serial port pinout on a DE-9 connector. The Hercules card defined that standard, etc. So those must have a historical interest. -tony

On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: [Genuine IBM cards] Correct. And the drives were Tandon (floppies) and Seagate/Shugart ST412s (hard disks). The original IBM PC/AT drive controller was a western digitial. Most of the other cards were (AFAIK) made by IBM, though. I forget who made the 1/2 height floppy drives for the PC-jr and the portable. The Portable monitor was a Zenith, and I think the MDA and CGA monitors were also built by another company. Ditto some of the PSUs. I feel like saying that 'original IBM' means 'as described in the TechRef'. The only problem with that is that the hard disk controller found in most UK XTs is totally different to the one shown in the O&A TechRef, alas. Agreed. Things like that 8086 card (where IBM _didn't_ make an equivalent) are interesting cards and should certainly be kept. But if we stick to CGA cards for a moment, if I was buying one at a radio rally, or was buying one in a system, my order of preference would be : 1) Genuine IBM, as described in the TechRef 2) Close chip-wise clone (say with 4416 RAMs, not 4816's) 3) Near chip-wise clone, with some of the logic in PALs 4) ASIC design (I'd probably not bother with this). It's a personal thing. I like to be able to stick a logic probe on the card and see what's happening. That's something I can't do with a modern machine, and that's one reason I collect some of these classics. YMMV and all that. -tony

Tony Duell wrote: I believe the original 1/2 height floppy drives on the PC Jr. were Qume. The Racore add-on expansion boxes were also Qume, at least on the ones I have.

I agree. It's also interesting to read between the lines of this thread and note that some people would definately be the type to do "concours" restorations. (Personally, I draw the line at worrying about the color of the ribbon cables.) It makes one wonder whether there will someday be a market for reproductions of computer manuals, FCC stickers, etc. the same way that such a market exists in the automobile collecting world. <<<John>>>

Ok, guys , I pulled a boner. That's what I get for trying to do too many things at once: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I wish to dispell all rumours that I am some kind of silicon-based life-form . . . Jeff

On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: I think if you will want to buy, sell or trade any piece of classic computer gear, the VCF will be the place to do it at. Of course, I may be a bit biased with that opinion :) I too like to keep duplicates of systems, and only start shedding stuff off at 3 and up. That way if something obscure ever breaks down in one I have the other to canibalize. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!