31 Dec
2001
31 Dec
'01
4:03 a.m.
On December 31, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
The only place that I have EVER met any people who
claimed to be
"engineers" who might "have never heard of Amphenol" would be some
university folk who have never set foot into the real world.
Ahh, those "engineers" who don't know which end of a soldering iron
gets hot.
A fond memory from around 1991, while working for a small defense
contractor in NJ, talking with a 2nd-year "summer slave" on loan from
MIT (of all places!). I'd assigned him to write some data reduction
code in FORTRAN for a remote sensing project, and later wound up
having to do it myself:
Me: "This program needs a lot of work."
Weenie: "Hah! Where did *YOU* go to school? See here:"
[weenie scribbles some incomprehensible equation on the whiteboard]
Me: "I didn't. But I damn well know a REAL*4 on this VAX won't
deal with the IEEE-format floating point numbers from the
spectrometer without format conversion, for starters.
Weenie: "WHAT?! [horrified look] You actually want to RUN this program?"
Me: "Of course. Why the hell do you think I asked you to write it?"
Weenie: "Isn't this just an exercise?"
Me: "We are a defense contractor. We build machines to kill
people. Look at the size of my gut...we NEVER exercise
around here."
Weenie: "Does this mean I have to type this program in, like on a computer?"
Me: "No. You're fired."
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
31 Dec
31 Dec
5:05 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote:
Ahh, those "engineers" who don't know
which end of a soldering iron
gets hot.
A fond memory from around 1991, while working for a small defense
contractor in NJ, talking with a 2nd-year "summer slave" on loan from
MIT (of all places!). I'd assigned him to write some data reduction
code in FORTRAN for a remote sensing project, and later wound up
having to do it myself: . . .
Me: "No. You're fired."
I catch a lot of flack at the college for teaching real-world programming,
instead of UCBerkeley academic style. (such as teaching students to NOT
use scanf() for keyboard input (According to Ritchie, it was NEVER
intended for keyboard)).
There is a classic old story about Edison.
He had a college intern one summer. He handed the intern an empty
lightbulb and asked him to find out what the volume was. The intern
proceeded to calculate an equation for the shape, and integrate that
around the rotational axis. After a few hours, Edison took the bulb away
from him, filled it with water from the sink, and
poured that into a
graduated beaker.
OB_CC: That makes the old Apple ad exceptionally out of line. Apple's ad
said that if Edison were to have had an Apple, he could have simulated
everything, instead of actually having to try things out in his
workshop. Would he?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
9:14 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
At 11:05 AM 12/31/01 -0800, you wrote:
OB_CC: That makes the old Apple ad exceptionally out
of line. Apple's ad
said that if Edison were to have had an Apple, he could have simulated
everything, instead of actually having to try things out in his
workshop. Would he?
Edison was much more a technition than an inventor. He took other peoples
unique ideas and made working units.
7:38 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
Yes, but even Edison wouldn't have spelled "technician" the way you did.
Did they have spell-checkers on Apples?
From what I've read, Edison wasn't a
technician, either, but, rather, was a
manager type. He had the wisdom to see a
good idea, though he clearly
goofed with his take on electric power transmission.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer
find
At 11:05 AM 12/31/01 -0800, you wrote:
>OB_CC: That makes the old Apple ad exceptionally out of line. Apple's
ad
said that if
Edison were to have had an Apple, he could have simulated
everything, instead of actually having to try things out in his
workshop. Would he?
Edison was much more a technition than an inventor. He took other peoples
unique ideas and made working units.
3:21 p.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
From what I've read, Edison wasn't a
technician, either, but, rather, was a
manager type. He had the wisdom to see a good idea, though he clearly
goofed with his take on electric power transmission.
But didn't he develop the first practical commercial electric chair as
part of his promotion of his power transmission system?
Electrocution is much more energy efficient than having to melt a pot of
iron.
2 Jan
2 Jan
8:14 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
The Edison electric chair was part of Edisons campaign to show how
dangerous Tesla's and Westinghouse' A.C. transmission was. And also to
promote his D.C. method. In his vituperous campaign he would hold
exhibitions displaying to strong-stomached reporters how stray pets he had
youths snatch off the streets would be Westinghoused by AC currents.
Edison had managed thrugh subterfuge to acquire a license to use 3 of the
Tesla patents. So it was only a development by default by Edison.
The Sing-Sing execution exhibition was a flop since Edisons engineers
underestimated the charge to be used (they had only used it on small
animals previously) and they only half-killed the prisoner. They had to zap
poor guy again and in the words of a reporter present it was " an awful
spectacle, far worse than hanging"
I guess you could call him a good manager type with the wisdom to
recognize a good idea, but others might also call it theft of intellectual
property. Word was that when one of his young employees came up with an
idea he would immediately the next day scoot out and patent it. This, as
well as minimal pay, was the source of Tesla and Edisons lifelong animosity.
He claimed Edison cheated him.
Lawrence
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
From what I've read, Edison wasn't a
technician, either, but, rather, was a
manager type. He had the wisdom to see a good idea, though he clearly goofed
with his take on electric power transmission.
But didn't he develop the first practical commercial electric chair as
part of his promotion of his power transmission system?
Electrocution is much more energy efficient than having to melt a pot of
iron.
31 Dec
31 Dec
2:14 p.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT ColorPrinter find
Mike Ford wrote:
At 11:05 AM 12/31/01 -0800, you wrote:
He had a few flops too!
His pre-fab concrete homes were a failure. Pour cement in this home
sized
mold and out comes a home! His real invention was inventing 'inventing'.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
OB_CC: That makes the old Apple ad exceptionally
out of line. Apple's ad
said that if Edison were to have had an Apple, he could have simulated
everything, instead of actually having to try things out in his
workshop. Would he?
Edison was much more a technition than an inventor. He took other peoples
unique ideas and made working units. 
9:42 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
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10:33 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
I remember in the interval graduation+(1..10) I used
Integration only once, and it was to calculate the position
on a VHS tape given its spindle speed(s).
Nowadays every VCR does real time display. Wonder
why it took so long to happen? Imean it was only a 1-line
polynomial.
John A.
11:55 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
Well from what I've heard about the "father of electricity" and Henry Ford
for
that matter, he would hire a bunch of "promising" engineers like Tesla,
take what they've already discovered, claim them as products of his own
and become a wold-famous inventor. And of course, like Marconi, become the
"inventor of Radio" which we are now celebrating, despite the fact that Tesla
won a court decision in US courts to his primacy with it. History is written by
the Victors.
Lawrence
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
Ahh, those "engineers" who don't
know which end of a soldering iron
gets hot.
A fond memory from around 1991, while working for a small defense
contractor in NJ, talking with a 2nd-year "summer slave" on loan from
MIT (of all places!). I'd assigned him to write some data reduction
code in FORTRAN for a remote sensing project, and later wound up
having to do it myself: . . .
Me: "No. You're fired."
I catch a lot of flack at the college for teaching real-world programming,
instead of UCBerkeley academic style. (such as teaching students to NOT
use scanf() for keyboard input (According to Ritchie, it was NEVER
intended for keyboard)).
There is a classic old story about Edison.
He had a college intern one summer. He handed the intern an empty
lightbulb and asked him to find out what the volume was. The intern
proceeded to calculate an equation for the shape, and integrate that
around the rotational axis. After a few hours, Edison took the bulb away
from him, filled it with water from the sink, and poured that into a
graduated beaker.
OB_CC: That makes the old Apple ad exceptionally out of line. Apple's ad said
that if Edison were to have had an Apple, he could have simulated everything,
instead of actually having to try things out in his workshop. Would he?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
1 Jan
1 Jan
4:34 a.m.
New subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
...Marconi, become the "inventor of Radio"
which we
are now celebrating, despite the fact that Tesla won
a court decision ...
One book I have (I think it was written in the 1930's, when the
people who knew the history were Alive) suggested that Radio
was Discovered rather than invented. Some people were
working on well calibrated Telegraph equipment and noticed
that they could get signals from a loop that wasn't physically
connected to the recieving loop. This of course set of alot of
peoples' curiosity going and led to directed experimentation
and then the Science only much later.
John A.
31 Dec
31 Dec
9:38 a.m.
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11:09 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire(a)neurotica.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 01:03 PM
Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
On December 31, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
computer?"
The only place that I have EVER met any people
who claimed to be
"engineers" who might "have never heard of Amphenol" would be some
university folk who have never set foot into the real world.
Ahh, those "engineers" who don't know which end of a soldering iron
gets hot.
A fond memory from around 1991, while working for a small defense
contractor in NJ, talking with a 2nd-year "summer slave" on loan from
MIT (of all places!). I'd assigned him to write some data reduction
code in FORTRAN for a remote sensing project, and later wound up
having to do it myself:
Me: "This program needs a lot of work."
Weenie: "Hah! Where did *YOU* go to school? See here:"
[weenie scribbles some incomprehensible equation on the whiteboard]
Me: "I didn't. But I damn well know a REAL*4 on this VAX won't
deal with the IEEE-format floating point numbers from the
spectrometer without format conversion, for starters.
Weenie: "WHAT?! [horrified look] You actually want to RUN this program?"
Me: "Of course. Why the hell do you think I asked you to write it?"
Weenie: "Isn't this just an exercise?"
Me: "We are a defense contractor. We build machines to kill
people. Look at the size of my gut...we NEVER exercise
around here."
Weenie: "Does this mean I have to type this program in, like on a
Me: "No. You're fired."
Ya know, this'll make a lot of funny .sigs, if you pick any set of two
sequential lines.
-Dave
Bob
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
11:55 a.m.
OK, I may be odd_man_out in this, but I remember from the beatnic 60s
when a nice young black neighbor in an apartment building on Symphony
Road in Boston(populated mainly bymusicians and artists) was working on a
thesis at MIT about controlling atomic reactions by the depth of insertion of
rods in radioactive core elements. He moonlighted by working at the
Smithsonian which he loved. Most of the MIT students had very vigorous
qualifying tests unlike Harvard where if you had family connections you could
likely get in. I often wonder if his thesis had a role in 3 Mile Island which
would be horrifying to him as he was then.
So this nerd who is thinking about programming games without taking into
account the uses that Corporations like Martin would employ them for, "a
2nd year summer slave" confronts the "real" world and despite the usual
arrogance attitude of youth, who figure they know it all, is confronted by an
superior who does know what these programs do.
Other responses on your part so that he could decide whether or not he
wants to seriously engage himself in these goals might have been a more
benign response. Then if he decided to quit on moral grounds or not,
introduce him to Ethics 101.
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
Lawrence
On December 31, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
The only place that I have EVER met any people
who claimed to be
"engineers" who might "have never heard of Amphenol" would be some
university folk who have never set foot into the real world.
Ahh, those "engineers" who don't know which end of a soldering iron
gets hot.
A fond memory from around 1991, while working for a small defense
contractor in NJ, talking with a 2nd-year "summer slave" on loan from
MIT (of all places!). I'd assigned him to write some data reduction
code in FORTRAN for a remote sensing project, and later wound up
having to do it myself:
Me: "This program needs a lot of work."
Weenie: "Hah! Where did *YOU* go to school? See here:"
[weenie scribbles some incomprehensible equation on the whiteboard]
Me: "I didn't. But I damn well know a REAL*4 on this VAX won't
deal with the IEEE-format floating point numbers from the
spectrometer without format conversion, for starters.
Weenie: "WHAT?! [horrified look] You actually want to RUN this program?"
Me: "Of course. Why the hell do you think I asked you to write it?"
Weenie: "Isn't this just an exercise?"
Me: "We are a defense contractor. We build machines to kill
people. Look at the size of my gut...we NEVER exercise
around here."
Weenie: "Does this mean I have to type this program in, like on a computer?"
Me: "No. You're fired."
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
2 Jan
2 Jan
8:14 a.m.
More correct would be " to the type of person he was at that time."
My implication also relates to the idea that most of us grow callous over
time to the ideals we held when we were younger.
Lawrence
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
which would be
horrifying to him as he was then.
What? Want to be with you on this.
John A.
8390
days inactive
8392
days old
15 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
rschaefe＠gcfn.org