27 May
2020
27 May
'20
12:45 p.m.
On May 27, 2020, Lars Brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org> wrote:
Al Kossow wrote:
I wonder if there's any connection to Stanford's SAIL language?
Good question. I believe the answer is ?Wirth was initially involved with both?. Here?s a
bit of history in the Preface to a SAIL manual:
HISTORY OF THE LANGUAGE
The GOGOL III compiler, developed principally by Dan Swinehart at the
Stanford Artificial Intelligence Project, was the basis for the non-LEAP
portions of SAIL. Robert Sproull joined Swinehart in incorporating the
features of LEAP The first version of the language was released in November,
1969. SAIL's intermediate development was the responsibility of Russell
Taylor, Jim Low, and Hanan Samet, who introduced processes, procedure
variables, interrupts, contexts, matching procedures, a new macro system,
and other features. Most recently John Reiser, Robert Smith, and Russell
Taylor maintained and extended SAIL. They added a high-level debugger,
conversion to TENEX, a print statement, and records and references.
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/sail.man.html
And here?s a 1964 Stanford TimeSharing Project Memo by McKeeman and Wirth on Gogol:
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time sharing system at
Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical definition of the language and a number
of sample programs as well as a brief description of the operational characteristics of
the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast compilation of efficient machine code
directly into memory. The speed of compilation together with the accessibility of the text
editor make program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the
availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for learning to use the
language. More detailed information depends heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Algol W
was from Eroupe?
Algol W was from Stanford, written by Wirth when he was there
27 May
27 May
1:21 p.m.
On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
And here?s a 1964 Stanford TimeSharing Project Memo by
McKeeman and Wirth on Gogol:
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time sharing system
at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical definition of the language and a
number of sample programs as well as a brief description of the operational
characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast compilation of
efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of compilation together with the
accessibility of the text editor make program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples
presented here plus the availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for
learning to use the language. More detailed information depends heavily on a knowledge of
PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Do we have CODE? PDP-1's seems to be showing up more often than a PDP 8
as retro project.
Ben.
1:25 p.m.
On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used
under the PDP-1 time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical
definition of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief description
of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast
compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of compilation
together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de- bugging relatively
rapid. The examples presented here plus the availability of the compiler should form an
adequate basis for learning to use the language. More detailed information depends heavily
on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of
expression. Ascii dropping the arrow symbol may have messed up a few
langauges.
Ben.
1:42 p.m.
On 2020-05-27 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
relatively modern languages:
https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
--Toby
[Fira Code fwiw]
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language
used under the PDP-1
time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the
syntactical definition of the language and a number of sample programs
as well as a brief description of the operational characteristics of
the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast compilation of
efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of compilation
together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de-
bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the
availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for
learning to use the language. More detailed information depends
heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of
expression. Ascii dropping the arrow symbol may have messed up a few
langauges.
Ben.
3:56 p.m.
On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of
people code today in
relatively modern languages:
https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
Arg a web page!
The first thing that comes to mind is "How many terrabytes" for "hello
World".
This might mean modern for most people,but a language that has no leaky
memory
might be more useful, or say easy to use lists like in lisp.
--Toby
[Fira Code fwiw]
Modern machines have many good features, but they all are the
blah-humbug copies of each other. Blinking light computers on the other
hand...
Ben.
4:47 p.m.
On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.
But does the list actually support attachments?
It's easily worked around. This is how a lot
of people code today in
relatively modern languages:
https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
Arg a web page! ...
Ben.
6:19 p.m.
On 5/27/2020 5:47 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information.
On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk
wrote:
I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know. It's easily worked around. This is how a lot
of people code today in
relatively modern languages:
https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
Arg a web page! But does the list actually support attachments?
As far as I know it does not. I suspect because of spam and copywrites
with program code or data.
Ben.
7:43 p.m.
On 2020-05-27 9:19 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 5/27/2020 5:47 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
It's a picture. They can be useful.
On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information. On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk
wrote:
I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know. It's easily worked around. This is how a lot
of people code today in
relatively modern languages:
https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
Arg a web page! But does the list actually support attachments?
As far as I know it does not. I suspect because of spam and copywrites
with program code or data.
Ben.
9:01 p.m.
On 5/27/2020 8:43 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
That is why clicking with my mouse did nothing.
I like if eif else fi for if statements.
What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
Ben.
At the moment
I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information.
It's a picture. They can be useful. 
6:12 a.m.
The fancy arrows in Fira Code are ligatures. (Yuk! I'm not yet a convert)
https://www.hanselman.com/blog/MonospacedProgrammingFontsWithLigatures.aspx
ASCII-63 had a backward-arrow that disappeared in later revisions of the
standard, replaced with underscore (and also an upward-arrow which was at
the codepoint now used for the caret). But the PDP1 arrow wasn't ASCII. I
believe it's the FIO-DEC encoding, and used an IBM typewriter console,
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decpdp1F17_28841238/F17_PDP1Maint_1962…
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:01 AM ben via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 5/27/2020 8:43 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
That is why clicking with my mouse did nothing.
I like if eif else fi for if statements.
What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
Ben.
At the
moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information.
It's a picture. They can be useful.
6:49 a.m.
On 2020-05-28 12:01 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 5/27/2020 8:43 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
That is why clicking with my mouse did nothing.
I like if eif else fi? for if statements.
What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
Ben.
The source code is ASCII; the arrows are ligatures in the Fira Code
typeface.
Arrows were also a typographic convention in many books, e.g.
* Hundreds of textbooks using Pascal-ish pseudocode
* the Smalltalk-80 books
* Knuth's literate programs
And many languages define -> and <- tokens, even =>
So it does seem to be a thing people like to see.
--Toby
At the
moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information.
It's a picture. They can be useful. 
11:58 a.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 06:01, ben via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
Unmodified IBM Model M from 1991 in my case.
? is compose, equals, greater-than
Snag is, I can't get one going the other way... I get
less-than-or-equal-to etc: ? ?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
27 May
27 May
1:59 p.m.
On May 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk <cctalk
at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
I remember that from POP-2, which I think was created at U of Edinborough. At least we
used it at University of Illinois on an AI course taught by a visiting professor who came
from there. Odd language, I haven't seen it since.
paul
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language
used under the PDP-1 time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the
syntactical definition of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief
description of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to
permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of
compilation together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de- bugging
relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the availability of the compiler should
form an adequate basis for learning to use the language. More detailed information depends
heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Interesting the
asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of expression. 
3:31 p.m.
On May 27, 2020, at 4:59 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I used POP-2 at the University of Lancaster (ICL1909) and the University of Essex (PDP-10)
in the late ?60s and early ?70s. The language implemented an open stack so to swap the
contents of 2 variables you would use:
A, B ->A ->B
POP-2 later morphed into POP-11 running under Unix on a PDP-11. Later came POPLOG which
merged in support for PROLOG and LISP. There is a open-source implementation of POPLOG
available.
John.
On May 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
I remember that from POP-2, which I think was created at U of Edinborough. At least we
used it at University of Illinois on an AI course taught by a visiting professor who came
from there. Odd language, I haven't seen it since.
Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language
used under the PDP-1 time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the
syntactical definition of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief
description of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to
permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of
compilation together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de- bugging
relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the availability of the compiler should
form an adequate basis for learning to use the language. More detailed information depends
heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
Interesting the
asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of expression.
1668
days inactive
1669
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14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
hpyle＠cabezal.com -
john＠forecast.name -
lproven＠gmail.com -
paul＠mcjones.org -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au