der Mouse, you obviously know nothing about what it takes to get a concealed weapons permit in the US. I have a concealed weapons permit and I also have done practical pistol shooting. I would not want untrained individuals putting my life at risk. Having a permit in the US does not require training or anything but the money and no criminal record. I did my training at different opportunities in my life and without any requirement to do so. With reagrds to before 9/11 and after, the paradigm shift is a fact and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not people are allowed to carry weapons on a plane. People would have risen up and brought those first plaines down if they had a clue that the planes were going to be used as weapons and they were dead already so to speak. You can take my views however you want to in any way you care to. It wasn't your country that was attacked and left thousands dead. You have already pointed out what you think of America and its people in one of your earlier emails -----Original Message----- From: der Mouse <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca> Sent: Aug 7, 2004 12:39 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Holy cow... Sounds to me as though your issue is with getting concealed-carry permits rather than with having people on board who are, almost by definition, trusted with concealed weapons. It sounds to me as though this is more an argument to scrap the whole idea of keeping weapons out of the hands of airline passengers (at least while they are on the plane).