9 Apr
2011
9 Apr
'11
4:43 p.m.
First a question for other Lisa owners:
Could an error 10707 result from attempting to startup Lisa Office from a
ProFile that was configured while attached to a different machine? I
believe there's some sort of node-locking that occurs during installation,
but I'm not sure what the symptoms of a mismatch might be.
Otherwise, here's the status of my restoration:
- Intermittant recognition of keyboard originally blamed on bad 1/4" jack
was finally traced down to missing screws on the bottom of the case.
With these missing, the front bezel springs out far enough to prevent the
keyboard plug from making reliable contact. Never noticed they were gone
until I turned it upside down.
- Dead keys addressed by cannabilizing a Sun 4 keyboard ($18 eBay
purchase). All foam disks replaced, all keys now working. Cleaned up
nicely to boot!
- Spent some quality time cleaning out the 9-pin mouse connector with Caig
cleaner and bent spring contacts in very slightly with jeweler's
screwdriver. Now making reliable connection, saving a big hassle trying
to get it off the board without damaging anything.
- Snarfed diskette drive from the second Lisa, cleaned up mechanism,
degreased with PCB flux remover (alcohol, I believe) and performed final
lub with a tiny amount of spray silicone.
It now passes LisaTest 100% and can boot into MacWorks / Finder 5.0 from
one of the ProFiles. The other ProFile has Lisa Office installed, but as
noted above it throws an error 10707 after chugging away for a bit.
When I use LisaTest to examine the ProFile the ready LED extinguishes,
followed by zero apparent activity before the test fails.
Steve
--
9 Apr
9 Apr
5:15 p.m.
Steve,
Lisa Office, once installed on a Profile or Widget, does indeed map to the
machine it was installed on as an anti-piracy measure. However it doesn't
seem to stop it booting. Lisa Office should still load.
I've seen this symptom when I plugged up a friend's ProFile emulator to my
Lisa 2. Office loaded just fine. However, when I went to create new
documents it wouldn't let me, saying that there was a mismatch between the
machine and the installation.
Sounds like great progress otherwise!
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Hirsch" <snhirsch at gmail.com>
To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Status of Lisa bringup
First a question for other Lisa owners:
Could an error 10707 result from attempting to startup Lisa Office from a
ProFile that was configured while attached to a different machine? I
believe there's some sort of node-locking that occurs during installation,
but I'm not sure what the symptoms of a mismatch might be.
11 Apr
11 Apr
1:35 p.m.
On 04/09/2011 04:43 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
First a question for other Lisa owners:
Could an error 10707 result from attempting to startup Lisa Office
from a ProFile that was configured while attached to a different
machine? I believe there's some sort of node-locking that occurs
during installation, but I'm not sure what the symptoms of a mismatch
might be.
http://lisafaq.sunder.net/lisafaq-sw-los_error_codes.html
10707 Cannot initialize the File System volume
So doesn't look like it can see the drive, or the file system is messed up?
If you move the ProFile to another Lisa, it should start up, but the
tools LisaWrite, etc. won't work.
I've seen this kind of thing when I had a Profile on a parallel port
card, and moved it to the motherboard parallel port or vice versa,
though with a different error code. Not sure that would help anything,
but if you did something like that, might be worth moving it to the same
slot and port. (Yes, it does care about which expansion slot # the card
is in.)
Baring that, the file system could just be toast and you'd need to run
scavenge or reinstall it.
6 p.m.
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Ray Arachelian wrote:
On 04/09/2011 04:43 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I wish I could re-install... Per some of my other postings, neither
LisaTest nor Lisa Office install seem to think there's a workable drive
attached! The same drive(s) (I've tried three so far) pass format and
diagnostics on an Apple III. I've also been able to successfully install
MacWorksXL on all three using the same Lisa.
There must be something that Lisa OS / LisaTest does that is not involved
in MacWorks / MacOS use of the drive. Darned if I know what.
I'll keep looking for the obvious anyway (bad connections). Already tried
two or three different cables to connect the drive to the system.
Steve
--
First a question for other Lisa owners:
Could an error 10707 result from attempting to startup Lisa Office
from a ProFile that was configured while attached to a different
machine? I believe there's some sort of node-locking that occurs
during installation, but I'm not sure what the symptoms of a mismatch
might be.
http://lisafaq.sunder.net/lisafaq-sw-los_error_codes.html
10707 Cannot initialize the File System volume
So doesn't look like it can see the drive, or the file system is messed up?
If you move the ProFile to another Lisa, it should start up, but the
tools LisaWrite, etc. won't work.
I've seen this kind of thing when I had a Profile on a parallel port
card, and moved it to the motherboard parallel port or vice versa,
though with a different error code. Not sure that would help anything,
but if you did something like that, might be worth moving it to the same
slot and port. (Yes, it does care about which expansion slot # the card
is in.)
Baring that, the file system could just be toast and you'd need to run
scavenge or reinstall it. 
7:37 p.m.
Steven Hirsch wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Ray Arachelian wrote:
To what extent is it possible to configure the drive interfaces in a Lisa?
I know nothing about them, but I do remember having to putz around with
Profile driver board config on the Apple /// whenever I moved things around.
Ray's point seems a good one; is it possible that there's nothing wrong
with the Profile or cables, and it's just that the software is looking in
the wrong place for the hardware?
cheers
Jules
I've seen this kind of thing when I had a
Profile on a parallel port
card, and moved it to the motherboard parallel port or vice versa,
though with a different error code. Not sure that would help anything,
but if you did something like that, might be worth moving it to the same
slot and port. (Yes, it does care about which expansion slot # the card
is in.)
Baring that, the file system could just be toast and you'd need to run
scavenge or reinstall it.
I wish I could re-install... Per some of my other postings, neither
LisaTest nor Lisa Office install seem to think there's a workable drive
attached! The same drive(s) (I've tried three so far) pass format and
diagnostics on an Apple III. I've also been able to successfully
install MacWorksXL on all three using the same Lisa.
There must be something that Lisa OS / LisaTest does that is not
involved in MacWorks / MacOS use of the drive. Darned if I know what.
8:47 p.m.
Steve,
One thought. Do you have a ProFile with a copy of Lisa Office on it
already, that you can plug in and see if it boots? Even though you won't be
able to open documents due the security matching, it still should boot. It
just might be a way of further reducing down the possibilities.
Terry (Tez)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Status of Lisa bringup
Steven Hirsch wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Ray Arachelian wrote:
To what extent is it possible to configure the drive interfaces in a Lisa?
I know nothing about them, but I do remember having to putz around with
Profile driver board config on the Apple /// whenever I moved things
around.
Ray's point seems a good one; is it possible that there's nothing wrong
with the Profile or cables, and it's just that the software is looking in
the wrong place for the hardware?
cheers
Jules
I've seen this kind of thing when I had a
Profile on a parallel port
card, and moved it to the motherboard parallel port or vice versa,
though with a different error code. Not sure that would help anything,
but if you did something like that, might be worth moving it to the same
slot and port. (Yes, it does care about which expansion slot # the card
is in.)
Baring that, the file system could just be toast and you'd need to run
scavenge or reinstall it.
I wish I could re-install... Per some of my other postings, neither
LisaTest nor Lisa Office install seem to think there's a workable drive
attached! The same drive(s) (I've tried three so far) pass format and
diagnostics on an Apple III. I've also been able to successfully install
MacWorksXL on all three using the same Lisa.
There must be something that Lisa OS / LisaTest does that is not involved
in MacWorks / MacOS use of the drive. Darned if I know what.
12 Apr
12 Apr
8:14 a.m.
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Terry Stewart wrote:
Steve,
One thought. Do you have a ProFile with a copy of Lisa Office on it already,
that you can plug in and see if it boots? Even though you won't be able to
open documents due the security matching, it still should boot. It just
might be a way of further reducing down the possibilities.
One of the ProFiles has Lisa Office 3.0 on it, but will not boot. It
chugs away for a while, then fails with Error 10707.
This whole situation has me quite puzzled.
--
14 Apr
14 Apr
12:17 p.m.
On 04/11/2011 06:00 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I wish I could re-install... Per some of my other postings, neither
LisaTest nor Lisa Office install seem to think there's a workable
drive attached! The same drive(s) (I've tried three so far) pass
format and diagnostics on an Apple III. I've also been able to
successfully install MacWorksXL on all three using the same Lisa.
There must be something that Lisa OS / LisaTest does that is not
involved in MacWorks / MacOS use of the drive. Darned if I know what.
I'll keep looking for the obvious anyway (bad connections). Already
tried two or three different cables to connect the drive to the system.
Steve
Sorry to hear, sounds like the spared block table is full. :-( likely
the media is too damaged and LOS doesn't want to try. LOS does a
request for block # -1 (yes, negative 1) which the Profile responds to
with it's size, signature, and either a list of spared blocks or the
number of spared blocks (I forget which, maybe both.) If it's over some
threshhold, LOS will throw an error saying it can't install on this Profile.
If you want to have some 68000 assembly hacking fun, try to find the
check and disable it. But yeah, that drive is likely not in good shape.
5:53 p.m.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011, Ray Arachelian wrote:
On 04/11/2011 06:00 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
Fortunately, it appears to be a bad connection. My best guess is that
MacWorks does not check data parity. LisaTest passes the drive now.
Waiting for some new media to try the LOS install again, but I'm confident
it will work this time around.
I know the drive is in good shape since I ran the Apple III based
diagnostics on it.
Steve
--
I wish I could re-install... Per some of my other postings, neither
LisaTest nor Lisa Office install seem to think there's a workable
drive attached! The same drive(s) (I've tried three so far) pass
format and diagnostics on an Apple III. I've also been able to
successfully install MacWorksXL on all three using the same Lisa.
There must be something that Lisa OS / LisaTest does that is not
involved in MacWorks / MacOS use of the drive. Darned if I know what.
I'll keep looking for the obvious anyway (bad connections). Already
tried two or three different cables to connect the drive to the system.
Steve
Sorry to hear, sounds like the spared block table is full. :-( likely
the media is too damaged and LOS doesn't want to try. LOS does a
request for block # -1 (yes, negative 1) which the Profile responds to
with it's size, signature, and either a list of spared blocks or the
number of spared blocks (I forget which, maybe both.) If it's over some
threshhold, LOS will throw an error saying it can't install on this Profile.
If you want to have some 68000 assembly hacking fun, try to find the
check and disable it. But yeah, that drive is likely not in good shape.
20 Apr
20 Apr
7:29 a.m.
Final report:
I have a 100% functional Lisa 2/5! Based on input from Ray Archelian, it
appears that the disk I/O issues under the Office System were indeed a
missing parity line. Must have been nicad battery "crud" wedged
somewhere, since it started working again after giving the motherboard a
lengthy soaking in dilute vinegar. Various intermittant keyboard and
diskette issues were resolved with a replacement wiring harness.
All the office tools are installed and I've been partying like it's 1984!
The only lingering sour note is that I found myself banned from the Google
Lisa list after making exactly three polite, on-topic posts regarding
troubleshooting. Google does not identify the list owner nor does it
provide any means to contact him/her. Is arbitrary heavy-handedness
typical in that venue?
At any rate, thank goodness for cctech, upon which I appear to still be
worthy of posting :-).
Steve
--
9:13 a.m.
On 20 April 2011 12:29, Steven Hirsch <snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
Final report:
I have a 100% functional Lisa 2/5! ?Based on input from Ray Archelian, it
appears that the disk I/O issues under the Office System were indeed a
missing parity line. ?Must have been nicad battery "crud" wedged somewhere,
since it started working again after giving the motherboard a lengthy
soaking in dilute vinegar. ?Various intermittant keyboard and diskette
issues were resolved with a replacement wiring harness.
All the office tools are installed and I've been partying like it's 1984!
The only lingering sour note is that I found myself banned from the Google
Lisa list after making exactly three polite, on-topic posts regarding
troubleshooting. ?Google does not identify the list owner nor does it
provide any means to contact him/her. ?Is arbitrary heavy-handedness typical
in that venue?
At any rate, thank goodness for cctech, upon which I appear to still be
worthy of posting :-).
Glad to hear it!
FWIW, I got banned from the LowEndMac Mac lists - all of them - for
pointing out to an American listmember that the "North American
English" update for an elderly version of MacOS might not be correct
for all English-speaking Mac users, and that there were also
"International English" and "UK English" versions for those of us who
invented the language.
A very minor, no-more-than-warm flamewar erupted and I got kicked.
Meanwhile, the excellent and stimulating Ubuntu Sounder mailing list
has just today been closed down altogether for the crime of wandering
offtopic.
Some lists are really, *really* touchy...
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
9:25 a.m.
On 4/20/11 6:13 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
FWIW, I got banned from the LowEndMac Mac lists - all
of them - for
pointing out to an American listmember that the "North American
English" update for an elderly version of MacOS might not be correct
for all English-speaking Mac users
I was banned from Vintage Macs for saying that I did not want to
have any contact with John Musbach (aka "Hexstar").
That thread is the first thing that pops up when you do a Google Groups
search for "Al Kossow" :-(
9:51 a.m.
On 20 April 2011 14:25, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 4/20/11 6:13 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Ouch! So it is. :?(
Dare I ask - what happened?
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
FWIW, I got banned from the LowEndMac Mac lists -
all of them - for
pointing out to an American listmember that the "North American
English" update for an elderly version of MacOS might not be correct
for all English-speaking Mac users
I was banned from Vintage Macs for saying that I did not want to
have any contact with John Musbach (aka "Hexstar").
That thread is the first thing that pops up when you do a Google Groups
search for "Al Kossow" :-( 
10:10 a.m.
On 4/20/2011 9:25 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
That thread is the first thing that pops up when you
do a Google Groups
search for "Al Kossow" :-(
Of course I had to take the bait. Do you find it strange that most of
the hits for that search are people looking for you? Even going back to
2005, 2009, and other dates, there's quite a few of "pinging Al", or
"are you there Al?", and so on.
Do you routinely ignore people's emails or something? :)
Keith
10:39 a.m.
On 4/20/11 7:10 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
On 4/20/2011 9:25 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
Most of that was from when I dropped out of video game collecting.
Google Groups has made it easier for me to keep an eye on when people are looking for
me on mailing lists. I also use it to watch for people looking for something and not
being able to find it on bitsavers. Many times it 'mysteriously' appears there a
day
or two after the request.
That thread is the first thing that pops up when
you do a Google Groups
search for "Al Kossow" :-(
Of course I had to take the bait. Do you find it strange that most of the hits for that
search are people looking for you? Even going back to 2005, 2009, and other dates,
there's quite a few of
"pinging Al", or "are you there Al?", and so on.
Do you routinely ignore people's emails or something? :)
10:38 a.m.
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011, Al Kossow wrote:
On 4/20/11 7:10 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
So basically, you channel Kibo. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
On 4/20/2011 9:25 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
Most of that was from when I dropped out of video game collecting.
Google Groups has made it easier for me to keep an eye on when people are
looking for
me on mailing lists. I also use it to watch for people looking for something
and not
being able to find it on bitsavers. Many times it 'mysteriously' appears
there a day
or two after the request. That thread is the first thing that pops up when
you do a Google Groups
search for "Al Kossow" :-(
Of course I had to take the bait. Do you find it strange that most of the
hits for that search are people looking for you? Even going back to 2005,
2009, and other dates, there's quite a few of
"pinging Al", or "are you there Al?", and so on.
Do you routinely ignore people's emails or something? :)
21 Apr
21 Apr
7:21 a.m.
I have a 100% functional Lisa 2/5!
Well done Steve. Congratulations!
The only lingering sour note is that I found myself
banned from the Google
Lisa list ...
What?? I'm on that list and I never saw anything remotely objectionable
from you? Are you sure it's not a mistake?
Terry (Tez)
10:05 a.m.
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, terry stewart wrote:
That's what I thought at first. However, the moderator does not respond
to repeated attempts to contact him via new posts to the list. I obtained
lowenddan's e-mail from another member and tried contacting him privately.
He has not responded after two messages.
I'm trying to see the humor in it. Like you, I haven't a clue why he
would have done this. The internet never ceases to surprise me!
Steve
--
I have a 100%
functional Lisa 2/5!
Well done Steve. Congratulations!
The only lingering sour note is that I found
myself banned from the Google
Lisa list ...
What?? I'm on that list and I never saw anything remotely objectionable from
you? Are you sure it's not a mistake?
4875
days inactive
4887
days old
17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
keithvz＠verizon.net -
lproven＠gmail.com -
ray＠arachelian.com -
snhirsch＠gmail.com -
terry＠webweavers.co.nz