20 Dec
2006
20 Dec
'06
10:59 a.m.
"Rick Bensene" <rickb at bensene.com> wrote:
We had quite a bit of fun writing little programs which
would wait
for a
specific time (during other people's classes), and
then "crash" the
system at that time. Eventually, we got caught.
This reminds me of an interesting phenomenon we discovered in 1974...
the high school had an ASR-33 connected via a leased data line
(telephone with acoustic coupler) to a PDP-8/E running TSS/8 at Clemson
University, 60 miles away.
I can't remember exactly what the code was any more, but it was a very
simple patch -we would deposit a mere three words at location 307
(octal) and execute it (ST 307), and the terminal would log on another
job. So you'd have two accounts open simultaneously on the same TTY!
And if you logged off one account the other would still be open so you
couldn't log off both... they'd have to reboot the system to kill it.
Any TSS/8 gurus know how we might have done this?
We also "inadvertently" deleted the contents of one of the library
DECtapes once... there was a "ZAP" command that zeroed out the tape, so
naturally we would type in "R ZAP" frequently, and get the expected
"WRITE LOCKED" error. One day, though, it actually did it =:^0 Guess
the operator forgot to flip the write lock switch!
-Charles
20 Dec
20 Dec
12:50 p.m.
This talk of software bugs and loopholes reminds me of something we
discovered in the old PC Pursuit system in the '80s. It seemed that you
could call in to your local access number, then instead of a destination
city and phone number you could input a LF character, and the next person
that tried to dial a number in your local area would be connected to your
system. :-) We discovered this by accident when writing a software
dialer and not terminating the dial string with CR/LF, only LF. I ended
up chatting with some perplexed users in various places, until they fixed
the bug.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
21 Dec
21 Dec
4:18 p.m.
At 06:59 PM 12/20/2006 +0000, you wrote:
"Rick Bensene" <rickb at bensene.com>
wrote:
OMG, that's about exactly the same arrangement we had at my high school- a
buncha ASR-33's timesharing on the Globe Union machine (before we bought
their PDP-8).
We discovered that you could deposit about 3 words from the console, one of
which might have been the WHO IOT, and lo! the user's ID and password (!)
would be dumped into memory in RAD50 (I think??) where you could easily
read them back and decode to ASCII at your leisure.
When I got to UWM, I discovered that the trick had been foiled by Dick
Bartlein (or was it Sam Milosevich??) rewriting parts of TSS/8 to make it
much more secure.
Al would know more, probably.
[Computing] Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail
clippings mixed in. --Larry Wall in
<1994Jul21.173737.16853 at netlabs.com>
--... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -...
tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square
EN53wc
WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531
We had quite a bit of fun writing little programs
which would wait
for a
specific time (during other people's classes),
and then "crash" the
system at that time. Eventually, we got caught.
This reminds me of an interesting phenomenon we discovered in 1974...
the high school had an ASR-33 connected via a leased data line
(telephone with acoustic coupler) to a PDP-8/E running TSS/8 at Clemson
University, 60 miles away.
I can't remember exactly what the code was any more, but it was a very
simple patch -we would deposit a mere three words at location 307
(octal) and execute it (ST 307), and the terminal would log on another
job. So you'd have two accounts open simultaneously on the same TTY!
And if you logged off one account the other would still be open so you
couldn't log off both... they'd have to reboot the system to kill it.
Any TSS/8 gurus know how we might have done this? 
6:11 p.m.
OMG, that's about exactly the same arrangement we
had at my
high school- a buncha ASR-33's timesharing on the Globe Union
machine (before we bought their PDP-8).
We discovered that you could deposit about 3 words from the
console, one of which might have been the WHO IOT, and lo!
the user's ID and password (!) would be dumped into memory in
RAD50 (I think??) where you could easily read them back and
decode to ASCII at your leisure.
When I got to UWM, I discovered that the trick had been
foiled by Dick Bartlein (or was it Sam Milosevich??)
rewriting parts of TSS/8 to make it much more secure.
Wow, Tom, are you a Nicolet HS alumnus? From looking in my yearbooks I'm
guessing class of '78? I was class of '76 and spent both semesters of my
senior year in computer independent study so I spent a lot of time on that
8/e (ex-Globe Union that was purchased by Nicolet in the summer of '75).
Almost finished a PAL-D decomplier before I graduated. I then also went to
UWM and got to work on their Edusystem 50 too. I remember renting a table
top ASR33 and dialing into the UWM system from home.
One of these days I need to post an introduction of myself to this list. I
have conversed with several DECies on here so some have seen pictures of my
project. I am working on assembling all of the pieces to duplicate the
Nicolet HS Edusystem 50 and hope to get TSS/8 running on it someday. I want
to do a website documenting my project but for now everyone can see it here:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&id=844769
Everything in this system has been accumulated separately. It appears my
biggest stumbling block to getting TSS/8 running is finding a working
RF08/RS08. That's why I have the two RK05Js. I'm hoping I can somehow
re-write TSS/8 to run off of an RK05. I've got a lot of studying and
relearning to do before that happens. I'm still working on the
cleaning/cosmetic restoration right now. The bay above the 8/e is waiting
for the PC04 on my workbench. Then it will be time to reform caps, configure
boards, start powering things up and get OS/8 running as a start.
Tom, if you have any original pictures of the Nicolet system I would love to
see them. I have written the HS and they have been no help in finding any
pictures of it. I visited there last year for their 50th anniversary and saw
the 'closet' (rather small room) it used to live in down in the F wing
library. I remember its configuration was a little different than DEC would
have normally done. The TU56s/TC08 were in the left rack with the RF08/RS08
in the center.
I was pleasantly surprised to find a copy of the UWM TSS/8 Users Guide on
bitsavers recently.
Jon Miles
22 Dec
22 Dec
6:23 p.m.
At 09:11 PM 12/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
Yup.
OMG,
that's about exactly the same arrangement we had at my
high school- a buncha ASR-33's timesharing on the Globe Union
machine (before we bought their PDP-8).
We discovered that you could deposit about 3 words from the
console, one of which might have been the WHO IOT, and lo!
the user's ID and password (!) would be dumped into memory in
RAD50 (I think??) where you could easily read them back and
decode to ASCII at your leisure.
When I got to UWM, I discovered that the trick had been
foiled by Dick Bartlein (or was it Sam Milosevich??)
rewriting parts of TSS/8 to make it much more secure.
Wow, Tom, are you a Nicolet HS alumnus? From looking in my yearbooks I'm guessing class of '78? I was class of '76 and
spent both semesters of my
Class of 78 is exactly right.
senior year in computer independent study so I spent a
lot of time on that
8/e (ex-Globe Union that was purchased by Nicolet in the summer of '75).
Almost finished a PAL-D decomplier before I graduated. I then also went to
UWM and got to work on their Edusystem 50 too. I remember renting a table
The Edusystem was gone by the time I got there. I worked on the PDP/8e and
later the VAX.
top ASR33 and dialing into the UWM system from home.
I did something similar, but I heisted a hazeltine terminal from the lab
(Dr. Levine said I could.)
One of these days I need to post an introduction of
myself to this list. I
have conversed with several DECies on here so some have seen pictures of my
project. I am working on assembling all of the pieces to duplicate the
Nicolet HS Edusystem 50 and hope to get TSS/8 running on it someday. I want
to do a website documenting my project but for now everyone can see it here:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&id=844769
Everything in this system has been accumulated separately. It appears my
biggest stumbling block to getting TSS/8 running is finding a working
RF08/RS08. That's why I have the two RK05Js. I'm hoping I can somehow
re-write TSS/8 to run off of an RK05. I've got a lot of studying and
relearning to do before that happens. I'm still working on the
cleaning/cosmetic restoration right now. The bay above the 8/e is waiting
for the PC04 on my workbench. Then it will be time to reform caps, configure
boards, start powering things up and get OS/8 running as a start.
Don't let the smoke out!
Tom, if you have any original pictures of the Nicolet
system I would love to
see them. I have written the HS and they have been no help in finding any
pictures of it. I visited there last year for their 50th anniversary and saw
the 'closet' (rather small room) it used to live in down in the F wing
library. I remember its configuration was a little different than DEC would
have normally done. The TU56s/TC08 were in the left rack with the RF08/RS08
in the center.
I have my DECTape from the PDP/8e at UWM. I have no idea if it's still
readable. All I had on it were BASIC programs and one or two assembler
programs I cobbled up. I may have a photo from NHS somewhere.
I can't remember how the racks were arranged. That was a LONG time ago.
I was pleasantly surprised to find a copy of the UWM
TSS/8 Users Guide on
bitsavers recently.
I must have some of that stuff in my storage locker. I'll have to check.
Jon Miles
Any relation to Mary Miles, and her younger (?) sister?
[Philosophy] Experience is the worst teacher. It always gives the
test first and the instruction afterward.
--... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -...
tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square
EN53wc
WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531
23 Dec
23 Dec
3:10 p.m.
I have my DECTape from the PDP/8e at UWM. I have no
idea if
it's still readable. All I had on it were BASIC programs and
one or two assembler programs I cobbled up. I may have a
photo from NHS somewhere.
I can't remember how the racks were arranged. That was a LONG
time ago.
Any pictures would be greatly appreciated!
Any relation to Mary Miles, and her younger (?) sister?
Nope, although my brother Chris was a year behind you at NHS.
Jon
2 Jan
2 Jan
10:28 a.m.
At 08:11 PM 12/21/2006, Jon Miles wrote:
Wow, Tom, are you a Nicolet HS alumnus? From looking in
my yearbooks I'm
guessing class of '78? [...] I then also went to
UWM and got to work on their Edusystem 50 too. I remember renting a table
top ASR33 and dialing into the UWM system from home.
I was dialing up to the UWM's machine from Shorewood on as ASR-33 in 1975,
although as part of an after-school programming class when I was 12. :-)
- John
6563
days inactive
6576
days old
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
charlesmorris＠hughes.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jmiles007＠iquest.net -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
tpeters＠mixcom.com