7 Jun
2005
7 Jun
'05
4:47 a.m.
I for one am happy. I've wanted to Try OSX as a replacement for Windows but
I didn't want to spend the $$$ on Apple hardware...not because it's better
or worse than PC-compatible hardware but because I have a ton of current PC
stuff. I've toyed with buying a Mac Mini, but it's still $500.
I've dabbled with Linux but I would feel better if there was a substantial
company behind it. OSX is better integrated and has a lot of right-brain
features that my wife and kids would like.
For $129 I'd take a flyer and commit one of my spare PCs to it. I couldn't
totally divorce myself from Windows but I would at least like some options.
I'm sure this is a sentiment shared by many, which, besides all of the
economics behind parts sourcing for manufacturing, is a good reason for
Apple to do it.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of O. Sharp
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:24 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Apple Goes Intel...
I don't know if this is bad news or even worse news, but for those who
haven't heard yet:
"At its Worldwide Developer Conference today, Apple announced plans to
deliver models of its Macintosh computers using Intel microprocessors by
this time next year, and to transition all of its Macs to using Intel
microprocessors by the end of 2007. Apple previewed a version of its
critically acclaimed operating system, Mac OS X Tiger, running on an
Intel-based Mac to the over 3,800 developers attending..."
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html
I think most of the eggs are in one basket now, and not a very reliable
basket at that. :( Opinions?
-O.-
7 Jun
7 Jun
5:34 a.m.
Red Hat and Mandrake have come a loooooooooooong way in desktop user
friendliness, something which had been the key sore spot for Linux
adoption on desktop systems, Star Office continue's to improve, but with
Apple entering the x86 arena, it could be a massive wakeup call to the
Linux distribution firms to really put on the polish onto their desktop
offerings as OSX for x86 is more of a threat to Desktop Linux then to
Windows... IMHO.
Curt
Cini, Richard wrote:
I for one am happy. I've wanted to Try OSX as a
replacement for Windows but
I didn't want to spend the $$$ on Apple hardware...not because it's better
or worse than PC-compatible hardware but because I have a ton of current PC
stuff. I've toyed with buying a Mac Mini, but it's still $500.
I've dabbled with Linux but I would feel better if there was a substantial
company behind it. OSX is better integrated and has a lot of right-brain
features that my wife and kids would like.
For $129 I'd take a flyer and commit one of my spare PCs to it. I couldn't
totally divorce myself from Windows but I would at least like some options.
I'm sure this is a sentiment shared by many, which, besides all of the
economics behind parts sourcing for manufacturing, is a good reason for
Apple to do it.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of O. Sharp
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:24 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Apple Goes Intel...
I don't know if this is bad news or even worse news, but for those who
haven't heard yet:
"At its Worldwide Developer Conference today, Apple announced plans to
deliver models of its Macintosh computers using Intel microprocessors by
this time next year, and to transition all of its Macs to using Intel
microprocessors by the end of 2007. Apple previewed a version of its
critically acclaimed operating system, Mac OS X Tiger, running on an
Intel-based Mac to the over 3,800 developers attending..."
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html
I think most of the eggs are in one basket now, and not a very reliable
basket at that. :( Opinions?
-O.-
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 6/7/2005
5:54 a.m.
On 07/06/2005, at 9:47 PM, Cini, Richard wrote:
I for one am happy. I've wanted to Try OSX as a
replacement for
Windows but
I didn't want to spend the $$$ on Apple hardware...not because it's
better
or worse than PC-compatible hardware but because I have a ton of
current PC
stuff. I've toyed with buying a Mac Mini, but it's still $500.
I've dabbled with Linux but I would feel better if there was a
substantial
company behind it. OSX is better integrated and has a lot of right-
brain
features that my wife and kids would like.
For $129 I'd take a flyer and commit one of my spare PCs to it. I
couldn't
totally divorce myself from Windows but I would at least like some
options.
The problem here is that Apple have already said that you won't be
able to run OS-X/Intel on anything other than Apple's Intel hardware
- that is, whilst Apple will be using x86 as the CPU, the resulting
hardware environment will not be Windows compatible - as far as I'm
concerned this is a good thing - I don't want strange holes in my
memory map above 640K for BIOS and graphics.
Apple have made the difficult (but in my opinion correct) decision to
phase out PowerPC and move to x86. They've done this for several
reasons, including outright performance and also MIPS/W so that they
can have high performance, long battery life laptops.
Where Apple are going isn't new - Digital/Compaq/HP have already been
here with the VAX/VMS -> Alpha/VMS -> Itanium/VMS moves as well as
the Alpha/NT -> Intel/NT move as well. These decisions weren't easy
to make, and certainly hurt and surprised customers as well as Compaq
staff - I remember well hearing about the demise of Alpha. However
(donning flameproof suit now), Alpha had no future due to the overall
chip cost and Itanium at least looks (looked?) promising in terms of
price/performance - CPU cost per MIP.
Looking back in Computing history, lots of nice/desirable/kill for
architectures/software/operating systems have died as new paradigms
took over. Yes, losing something familiar hurts but in our industry,
standing still is usually fatal.
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia | air, the sky would be painted green"
6:21 a.m.
I for one am happy. I've wanted to Try OSX as a
replacement for Windows but
I didn't want to spend the $$$ on Apple hardware...not because it's better
or worse than PC-compatible hardware but because I have a ton of current PC
stuff.
It won't work and you can believe Apple will do its utmost to ensure that
OS "x86" only runs on Apple-blessed Intel boxes.
I'm sure some clever folk will figure out a way to hoodwink OS X, but that
will be the exception.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Proudly running on the Apple Network Server 500/200 ------------------------
6:45 a.m.
On 6/7/05, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
After reading slashdot, I agree that Apple will make Intel Mac that
can triple-boot windows, OS/X and linux. Adding the fact that OS/X
will not run on anybody else's PC, the Apple Intel Mac might blow Dell
away.
I for one am
happy. I've wanted to Try OSX as a replacement for Windows but
I didn't want to spend the $$$ on Apple hardware...not because it's better
or worse than PC-compatible hardware but because I have a ton of current PC
stuff.
It won't work and you can believe Apple will do its utmost to ensure that
OS "x86" only runs on Apple-blessed Intel boxes.
I'm sure some clever folk will figure out a way to hoodwink OS X, but that
will be the exception.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Proudly running on the Apple Network Server 500/200 ------------------------
6:52 a.m.
It won't
work and you can believe Apple will do its utmost to ensure that
OS "x86" only runs on Apple-blessed Intel boxes.
I'm sure some clever folk will figure out a way to hoodwink OS X, but that
will be the exception.
After reading slashdot, I agree that Apple will make Intel Mac that
can triple-boot windows, OS/X and linux. Adding the fact that OS/X
will not run on anybody else's PC, the Apple Intel Mac might blow Dell
away.
7:07 a.m.
On 6/7/05, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
Why on earth would Apple do that? Apple's money comes from their Mac sales,
no matter what the iPod publicity implies. Do they want to chuck that by
dropping into the commodity PC market? If they make a PC that can triple
boot Mac, Windows and Linux, then it's an easy matter for someone else to do
so, too.
What they need to do is to add some Apple ID in the PROM and check the
ID when booting OS/X. Then nobody can make a PC that can run OS/X.
It won't work and you can believe Apple will do
its utmost to ensure that
OS "x86" only runs on Apple-blessed Intel boxes.
I'm sure some clever folk will figure out a way to hoodwink OS X, but that
will be the exception.
After reading slashdot, I agree that Apple will make Intel Mac that
can triple-boot windows, OS/X and linux. Adding the fact that OS/X
will not run on anybody else's PC, the Apple Intel Mac might blow Dell
away.
It's not going to happen.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Apathetic dyslexic agnostic: "I don't care if there's a dog"
---------------
12:17 p.m.
9000 VAX wrote:
What they need to do is to add some Apple ID in the
PROM and check the
ID when booting OS/X. Then nobody can make a PC that can run OS/X.
Perhaps the text "APPLE ][" at a known offset in rom? ;-)
--
Tim Riker - http://Rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist - http://eLinux.org/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
12:25 p.m.
From: "Tim Riker" <Tim at rikers.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:17 PM
9000 VAX wrote:
More likely they'll use the text "Bend over and smile".
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
What they need to do is to add some Apple ID in
the PROM and check the
ID when booting OS/X. Then nobody can make a PC that can run OS/X.
Perhaps the text "APPLE ][" at a known offset in rom? ;-)
--
Tim Riker - http://Rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist - http://eLinux.org/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun! 
8 Jun
8 Jun
12:26 p.m.
9000 VAX wrote:
What they need to do is to add some Apple ID in the
PROM and check the
ID when booting OS/X. Then nobody can make a PC that can run OS/X.
That is so trivial to hack it's not funny. A better solution is what I wrote
earlier, something like public-key encryption where each copy of the OS shipped
was encrypted with a key stored in the PROM or something. And even then it
would take under a month to add layers to create decrypted versions of the OS.
My personal prediction is that we'll see copies of OS X that run on a normal PC
in less than a year after introduction. (Note I didn't say if those copies
would be legal or not.)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
7 Jun
7 Jun
7:29 a.m.
Apple released Darwin for with the x86 platform, its VERY rough compared
to OSX, but with some commercial effort it could be a full blown
commercial platform port of OSX
Curt
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Why on earth would Apple do that? Apple's money comes from their Mac sales,
no matter what the iPod publicity implies. Do they want to chuck that by
dropping into the commodity PC market? If they make a PC that can triple
boot Mac, Windows and Linux, then it's an easy matter for someone else to do
so, too.
It's not going to happen.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 6/7/2005
It won't work and you can believe Apple will do its
utmost to ensure that
OS "x86" only runs on Apple-blessed Intel boxes.
I'm sure some clever folk will figure out a way to hoodwink OS X, but that
will be the exception.
After reading slashdot, I agree that Apple will make Intel Mac that
can triple-boot windows, OS/X and linux. Adding the fact that OS/X
will not run on anybody else's PC, the Apple Intel Mac might blow Dell
away.
7:42 a.m.
Apple released Darwin for with the x86 platform, its
VERY rough compared
to OSX, but with some commercial effort it could be a full blown
commercial platform port of OSX
Isn't that what they've already done? The Intel version was demoed at the
Keynote. According to Jobs, there have been parallel Intel builds of OS X
for at least five years.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse -
8:27 a.m.
From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning at equallogic.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:30 AM
I remember when IBM had commercials where the police were called to find the
stolen servers and someone pointed out the new server running Linux.
The newer commercials don't mention Linux but that's still what they run.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
>>>> "Richard" == Richard Cini <Cini> writes:
Richard> I've dabbled with Linux but I would feel better if there was
Richard> a substantial company behind it. ...
Um, last I looked IBM was a pretty substantial company.
paul 
7:35 a.m.
On Tuesday 07 June 2005 06:47, Cini, Richard wrote:
I've dabbled with Linux but I would feel better if
there was a
substantial company behind it.
You mean someone like IBM, or Novell?
Oh wait...
For $129 I'd take a flyer and commit one of my
spare PCs to it. I
couldn't totally divorce myself from Windows but I would at least
like some options.
As others have said, Apple is unlikely to make it so that you can run it
on anything but their hardware. Assuming they don't use the Pentium
D/Palladium DRM crap for that, I'm sure it won't be long before it's
possible to run it on anything, though. Just look at Mac-On-Linux.
I'm sure this is a sentiment shared by many,
which, besides all of
the economics behind parts sourcing for manufacturing, is a good
reason for Apple to do it.
There's many more reasons that this could be the death knell for Apple.
For one thing, they're going to start directly competing with Dell et
al for sales, which isn't such a great idea.
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
7138
days inactive
7139
days old
14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
cctalk＠randy482.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
huw.davies＠kerberos.davies.net.au -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
Richard.Cini＠wachovia.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
Tim＠rikers.org -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
vax9000＠gmail.com