28 Feb
2003
28 Feb
'03
3:41 p.m.
Fellow classic'ers, I have a very specific set of
old radio service
software packages that require running. Since they were written back when
the 386 was still in the "Ooooh, Ahhhh!" phase, and discontinued soon
after, they won't run reliably (if at all) on anything newer than a 486.
I have some friends that make the same claim. That they have
radio/scanner programming software that will NOT work on anything newer
than a 386. I'm curious... WHY? What happens at the faster speeds that
makes it useless? I've tried asking my friends, but they are clueless on
these matters (and actually, all except one had no idea, they were making
the claim simply because they were told that was the case... only one
claims to have actually tried it).
Is it something that is solveable by running some kind of speed killing
software (I had an app that did that. I used it to play old DOS games on
newer Pentium machines. The graphics ran so fast that the games were
unplayable, so I ran this processor stealing software and it slows the
machine down by the % you tell it to).
Here's what I'd like to find. A small
tower-style 486, mini or mid, with
PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built in. Speed-wise, it should be
in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have switchable "Turbo/Non-Turbo"
mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a keypress combination.
Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in addition to the usual
ISA or EISA.
Ugh.... should have asked a few months ago. I just junked scores of
486's. I'm sure one of them probably fit your bill (or at least came
close). I have some more coming up to be scrapped, so I'll keep an eye
out.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
28 Feb
28 Feb
9:40 p.m.
When I was working in process controls, we had PLC programming software
--
http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html
from two different companies that would only run on
certain processors.
The original SLC-500 series software from Allen-Bradley would
not run on
a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as you tried to run it
on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS totally down to the point
only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 series from ICOM
would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 and the comm port
control routines refused to communicate with the system making it
totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, the names elludes me
(it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a hard drive over 240mb.
It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle hard drives over
240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would crash if either the
drive was too large or if the system was too fast. All of this software
was still current in 1994-98.
As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a
museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago.
chris wrote:
Fellow
classic'ers, I have a very specific set of old radio service
software packages that require running. Since they were written back when
the 386 was still in the "Ooooh, Ahhhh!" phase, and discontinued soon
after, they won't run reliably (if at all) on anything newer than a 486.
I have some friends that make the same claim. That they have
radio/scanner programming software that will NOT work on anything newer
than a 386. I'm curious... WHY? What happens at the faster speeds that
makes it useless? I've tried asking my friends, but they are clueless on
these matters (and actually, all except one had no idea, they were making
the claim simply because they were told that was the case... only one
claims to have actually tried it).
Is it something that is solveable by running some kind of speed killing
software (I had an app that did that. I used it to play old DOS games on
newer Pentium machines. The graphics ran so fast that the games were
unplayable, so I ran this processor stealing software and it slows the
machine down by the % you tell it to).
Here's what I'd like to find. A small
tower-style 486, mini or mid, with
PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built in. Speed-wise, it should be
in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have switchable "Turbo/Non-Turbo"
mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a keypress combination.
Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in addition to the usual
ISA or EISA.
Ugh.... should have asked a few months ago. I just junked scores of
486's. I'm sure one of them probably fit your bill (or at least came
close). I have some more coming up to be scrapped, so I'll keep an eye
out.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
1 Mar
1 Mar
3:07 a.m.
Those packages have the same problems as older dos games.
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/help/oldonnew/
"The second advantage is a natural resistance to obscure programming
techniques, like self-modifying code. The 80386 doesn't have an internal
cache like the 486 and higher, so most self-modifying code works as good as
it did on the original 8088."
I found alot of install routines written when the 386 was around would cause
errors on faster machines because they hard coded timer loops for user
input.
Since the PLC software uses the comm ports and they are most likely buffered
newer computers feed the data too fast for the serial port.
One thing to try on faster machines is to disable internal and external
cache in the system bios, then hit the turbo button to slow the processor
down to 8mhz (if possible)
If you really need a 386 motherboards with chip and memory can be found on
ebay really cheap, but are not too common. Buying an old 386 from ebay isn't
worth it because of the shipping costs of the heavy boat anchors, but
motherboards are cheap. Getting a case from a local thrift store to run it
in wouldn't be too expensive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rice" <jrice54(a)charter.net>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system...
--
http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html
When I was working in process controls, we had PLC
programming software
from two different companies that would only run on certain processors.
The original SLC-500 series software from Allen-Bradley would not run on
a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as you tried to run it
on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS totally down to the point
only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 series from ICOM
would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 and the comm port
control routines refused to communicate with the system making it
totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, the names elludes me
(it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a hard drive over 240mb.
It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle hard drives over
240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would crash if either the
drive was too large or if the system was too fast. All of this software
was still current in 1994-98.
As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a
museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago.
chris wrote:
>> Fellow classic'ers, I have a very specific set of old radio service
>>software packages that require running. Since they were written back
when
>>the 386 was still in the "Ooooh,
Ahhhh!" phase, and discontinued soon
>>after, they won't run reliably (if at all) on anything newer than a 486.
>>
>>
>
>I have some friends that make the same claim. That they have
>radio/scanner programming software that will NOT work on anything newer
>than a 386. I'm curious... WHY? What happens at the faster speeds that
>makes it useless? I've tried asking my friends, but they are clueless on
>these matters (and actually, all except one had no idea, they were making
>the claim simply because they were told that was the case... only one
>claims to have actually tried it).
>
>Is it something that is solveable by running some kind of speed killing
>software (I had an app that did that. I used it to play old DOS games on
>newer Pentium machines. The graphics ran so fast that the games were
>unplayable, so I ran this processor stealing software and it slows the
>machine down by the % you tell it to).
>
>
>
>> Here's what I'd like to find. A small tower-style 486, mini or mid,
with
>>PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built
in. Speed-wise, it should
be
>>in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have
switchable "Turbo/Non-Turbo"
>>mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a keypress combination.
>>Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in addition to the
usual
ISA or EISA.
Ugh.... should have asked a few months ago. I just junked scores of
486's. I'm sure one of them probably fit your bill (or at least came
close). I have some more coming up to be scrapped, so I'll keep an eye
out.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
2 Mar
2 Mar
8:13 a.m.
--- James Rice <jrice54(a)charter.net> wrote:
As far as finding an older system, except for the 386
that is kind of a
museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago.
Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire collection
*over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced
an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this
P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware
away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to
put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough
to spend "real" money on it.
As I've written about here before, I have a device programmer that
does not like fast machines. I think part of it is that ISA speeds
went from 8.00MHz to 8.33MHz when 386s and the like came onto the
scene (to simplify the bus controller design). I have not done the
experiment of taking a 486-25 and cranking everything down. It's
been less effort to keep an 8-bit or 16-bit machine around. I suppose
in the future, when _this_ box dies, I may have to resort to the slowest
ISA machine I can find, and playing with BIOS settings, disabling internal
and external cache, etc.
-ethan
8:54 a.m.
Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire
collection
*over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced
an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this
P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware
away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to
put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough
to spend "real" money on it.
As I've written about here before, I have a device programmer that
does not like fast machines. I think part of it is that ISA speeds
Snip!
ISA machine I can find, and playing with BIOS
settings, disabling internal
and external cache, etc.
-ethan
Ethan & to others,
I once ran into a lunch box b/w LCD portable that once had 286 in
it (baby AT size, smug fit at that). I plugged in an 486 or pentium
board in it and LCD controller (ISA only) spat out crap once cache is
enabled and shadowing the video bios loads.
With external & internal cache and shadowing disabled, things went
great. Try that on yours.
That lunchox was too much trouble and my intention was using it with
pentium in it but that LCD controller was the problem spot so I
ditched it.
And I can't use my P75 either because of flickering pixels. It is
not the panel itself it is somewhere else in the circuitry or display
board.
In meantime, informal search for good lunchbox continues.
Cheers,
Wizard
3 Mar
3 Mar
12:21 a.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- James Rice <jrice54(a)charter.net> wrote:
Replaced an 800MHz CPU? Was it a P-III? And does it still work? If so,
I'll take it...
I have 2 boards that can max out with an P-III 800 CPU. One is my main
desktop, currently a P-III 500, and the other is currently not being
used...
--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818
As far as finding an older system, except for the
386 that is kind of a
museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago.
Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire collection
*over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced
an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this
P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware
away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to
put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough
to spend "real" money on it.
7736
days inactive
7739
days old
5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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cb＠mythtech.net -
dwoyciesjes＠comcast.net -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrice54＠charter.net -
teoz＠neo.rr.com