13 Jan
2016
13 Jan
'16
5:29 p.m.
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the "freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Happy computing.
Murray :)
13 Jan
13 Jan
5:40 p.m.
On 1/13/2016 3:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Happy computing.
Murray :)
I still think you can build a Car, but VW parts are not as common
as it was once.
Ben.
PS: BUILD A PDP-K, a nice 18 bit that never was.
5:54 p.m.
Can't build a TV? Heathkit.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 2:40 PM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
On 1/13/2016 3:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Happy computing.
Murray :)
I still think you can build a Car, but VW parts are not as common
as it was once.
Ben.
PS: BUILD A PDP-K, a nice 18 bit that never was.
6:01 p.m.
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
However, there are at least a few car guys that might have a thing or
two to say about the original post.
--
Will
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
Can't build a TV? Heathkit.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 2:40 PM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
On 1/13/2016 3:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China." I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Happy computing.
Murray :)
I still think you can build a Car, but VW parts are not as common
as it was once.
Ben.
PS: BUILD A PDP-K, a nice 18 bit that never was.
6:07 p.m.
On Jan 13, 2016, at 3:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
However, there are at least a few car guys that might have a thing or
two to say about the original post.
I agree. Kit cars are still around. ;-)
I don?t know about how easy it would be to build a TV (from scratch?something
Heathkit didn?t do BTW?tuner was pre-assembled and ?tuned?) given that the
over-the-air signal is now a digital signal vs analog (ie I can?t recall if there?s any
encryption involved that would require decryption keys).
TTFN - Guy
6:16 p.m.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
Certainly, but the OP seemed to be referring to the historical context of
the construction of so-called "personal computers", especially 8-bit
machines. And just to stretch the point a bit, amateur radio operators
were building and using slow-scan TV systems in the 1970s.
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
On Jan 13, 2016, at 3:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>
wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
However, there are at least a few car guys that might have a thing or
two to say about the original post.
I agree. Kit cars are still around. ;-)
I don?t know about how easy it would be to build a TV (from
scratch?something
Heathkit didn?t do BTW?tuner was pre-assembled and ?tuned?) given that the
over-the-air signal is now a digital signal vs analog (ie I can?t recall
if there?s any
encryption involved that would require decryption keys).
TTFN - Guy
6:27 p.m.
I don?t know about how easy it would be to build a TV
(from scratch?something
Heathkit didn?t do BTW?tuner was pre-assembled and ?tuned?) given that the
over-the-air signal is now a digital signal vs analog (ie I can?t recall if there?s any
encryption involved that would require decryption keys).
In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have continuous tuners.
--
Will
7:38 p.m.
On 1/13/2016 4:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
But then again you only had 1 TV channel at most in the AREA.
*** THE TWILIGHT ZONE ***
I don?t know
about how easy it would be to build a TV (from scratch?something
Heathkit didn?t do BTW?tuner was pre-assembled and ?tuned?) given that the
over-the-air signal is now a digital signal vs analog (ie I can?t recall if there?s any
encryption involved that would require decryption keys).
In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have continuous tuners. 
7:54 p.m.
On 01/13/2016 03:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have
continuous tuners.
In prewar days, it seems that there more than a couple of offerings.
Didn't Meissner(they of the "Signal Shifter" VFO) offer a kit TV in the
30s/early 40s? I do remember the continuous tuners, though--two
bands--and one could even tune Channel 1.
A large number of Heathkit color TVs were built by vets using funding
from the GI bill. Those were Heath's good days...
--Chuck
7:59 p.m.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 01/13/2016 03:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have continuous tuners.
In prewar days, it seems that there more than a couple of offerings.
Didn't Meissner(they of the "Signal Shifter" VFO) offer a kit TV in the
30s/early 40s? I do remember the continuous tuners, though--two bands--and
one could even tune Channel 1.
A large number of Heathkit color TVs were built by vets using funding from
the GI bill. Those were Heath's good days...
--Chuck
ISTR ads in magazines like Popular Electronics offering courses on TV
repair that employed the Heathkit as the learning platform.
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
15 Jan
15 Jan
2:01 p.m.
On 01/13/2016 4:54 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 01/13/2016 03:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
I built one of the Heathkit colour TVs in time to watch the moon
landings. I was 18 and built in one day (and night) and it worked from
the first turn on. Lasted over twenty years as the main house set only
needing service every few years until the picture tube gave out finally.
John :-#)#
--
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have
continuous tuners.
In prewar days, it seems that there more than a couple of offerings.
Didn't Meissner(they of the "Signal Shifter" VFO) offer a kit TV in
the 30s/early 40s? I do remember the continuous tuners, though--two
bands--and one could even tune Channel 1.
A large number of Heathkit color TVs were built by vets using funding
from the GI bill. Those were Heath's good days...
--Chuck
4:04 p.m.
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, John Robertson wrote:
I built one of the Heathkit colour TVs in time to
watch the moon landings. I
was 18 and built in one day (and night) and it worked from the first turn on.
Lasted over twenty years as the main house set only needing service every few
years until the picture tube gave out finally.
If you're astronomically bored, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P1HMJOV0qA&list=PLEENdRyj_RZb7hgF_88Ao…
I finished the build over the holiday break.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
13 Jan
13 Jan
7:57 p.m.
On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
It was for a while. But it's back. Check out heathkit.com.
paul
8:07 p.m.
Is that the guy that bought the Heath IP?
--
Will
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
It was for a while. But it's back. Check out heathkit.com.
paul
8:15 p.m.
Must be. New kits, old manuals, upgrades for old kits -- at least a brief glance gave me
a pretty positive impression.
paul
On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:07 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Is that the guy that bought the Heath IP?
--
Will
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
>
> It was for a while. But it's back. Check out heathkit.com.
>
> paul
>
>
9:28 p.m.
New subject: Heathkit (Re: Building a PC - then & now)
On 1/13/2016 7:15 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Must be. New kits, old manuals, upgrades for old kits
-- at least a brief glance gave me a pretty positive impression.
paul
Meh. It has taken them, like, 5 years to come out with this seriously
overpriced radio, and it isn't even superhet for crying out loud. The
rest are just pieces parts.
They created a lot of hype, but have done almost nothing real.
Maybe someday they will be real, but not yet.
JRJ
14 Jan
14 Jan
5:04 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Koning
Sent: 14 January 2016 00:58
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Building a PC - then & now
Only one kit that uses threaded screw down contacts to avoid soldering.
Dave
On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>
wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
It was for a while. But it's back. Check out heathkit.com.
paul
10 a.m.
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016, Paul Koning wrote:
The radio kit they're selling is an embarassment.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Errrrr...Heathkit is long gone.
It was for a while. But it's back. Check out heathkit.com.
13 Jan
13 Jan
6:19 p.m.
On 01/13/2016 04:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Hmmm, well. I can build a phone (not a cell phone, of
course, but a land-line phone is relatively simple.)
Some people have definitely built cars, and gotten them
licensed. I have built things that are essentially
refrigerators. We have one of those ice cream makers that
takes about a ton of ice cubes to make one quart of ice
cream. I hacked up some refrigeration components to chill
the brine, which gets re-used. Works great!
My insane friend Walter turned his Tek RM35 scope into a TV,
and watched TV on a 5" green screen while he was in
college. Hmm, Walter also cloned a Data General Nova with
piles of TTL chips. Probably very little by AMD or Intel in
there, either.
Jon
14 Jan
14 Jan
1:51 a.m.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Murray McCullough <
c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote:
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
I'd say that we still have the freedom to build a computer; in fact, it's
probably easier than it ever was. True, it may not be feasible to build
a high-performance computer based on current generation x86 chips,
but there are so many alternatives: some of the 8-bit favourites are still
being made (6502, z80); then there's the AVR, PIC, TI 430, the Propeller,
various ARM chips.
There are free or low-cost CAD packages, and having small series of PCBs
made is almost ridiculously cheap. You can get logic analyzers for $150 or
so, and if you want to experiment with FPGAs, you can get useful
development systems for well below $100.
5:09 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Raymond
Wiker
Sent: 14 January 2016 06:52
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Building a PC - then & now
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Murray McCullough <
c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote:
I would say we have more freedom now than ever before. Perhaps Ghz mother boards are
beyond most people, but other than that there are folks building every sort of computer,
other than perhaps valve machines.
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
I'd say that we still have the freedom to build a computer; in fact, it's
probably easier than it ever was. True, it may not be feasible to build a high-
performance computer based on current generation x86 chips, but there are
so many alternatives: some of the 8-bit favourites are still being made (6502,
z80); then there's the AVR, PIC, TI 430, the Propeller, various ARM chips.
There are free or low-cost CAD packages, and having small series of PCBs
made is almost ridiculously cheap. You can get logic analyzers for $150 or so,
and if you want to experiment with FPGAs, you can get useful development
systems for well below $100. From transistor based CPUs, through TTL based CPU's
, Microprocessor machines up to FPGA based CPU's...
Dave
2:24 p.m.
Am 14.01.16 um 11:09 schrieb Dave Wade:
I would say we have more freedom now than ever before.
Perhaps Ghz
mother boards are beyond most people, but other than that there are
folks building every sort of computer, other than perhaps valve
machines.
There is the MUNIAC: http://www.cray-cyber.org/hardware/Hardware.php
Though, uncompleted. (IIRC they have the ALU mostly finished.) But still
a "modern" design valve computer build by hobbyists.
Some Geek-Porn:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stiefkind/43091224
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Okona
http://www.cray-cyber.org/static/tours2004/LARGE/J_MUNIAC.jpg
http://www.cray-cyber.org/static/tours2004/LARGE/J_MUNIC-Roehrenrechner.jpg
--
tsch??,
Jochen
5:23 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Cisin
Sent: 14 January 2016 19:55
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Building a PC - then & now
Howzbout an updated version similar to Cardiac?
Or, a DIY kit for an Antikythera?
Appart from the fact it is not actually programmable, I am a tad surprised
you can't 3d print one...
Dave
2:59 p.m.
On 1/14/2016 12:24 PM, Jochen Kunz wrote:
There is the MUNIAC:
http://www.cray-cyber.org/hardware/Hardware.php
Though, uncompleted. (IIRC they have the ALU mostly finished.) But still
a "modern" design valve computer build by hobbyists.
Some Geek-Porn:
Arg! The PDF links are dead. How about posting the PDF's if you have
them to bitsavers.
Ben.
3:18 p.m.
The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is our friend!
https://web.archive.org/web/20100220165315/http://static.cray-cyber.org/Har…
https://web.archive.org/web/20100220165315/http://static.cray-cyber.org/Har…
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:00 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Building a PC - then & now
On 1/14/2016 12:24 PM, Jochen Kunz wrote:
There is the MUNIAC:
http://www.cray-cyber.org/hardware/Hardware.php
Though, uncompleted. (IIRC they have the ALU mostly finished.) But
still a "modern" design valve computer build by hobbyists.
Some Geek-Porn:
Arg! The PDF links are dead. How about posting the PDF's if you have them to
bitsavers.
Ben.
3 p.m.
Sure you can build a car.
Assuming I have the spare $$$$$, I could build a brand new 1969 Camaro. With
out ever going to GM.
Assuming you have the know how and skills, your biggest problem might be
deciding which vendor your money will go to for various parts.
Plenty of other US cars could be built in a similar fashion, but the Chevrolet
is probably one of the more popular ones.
Some also mentioned VW's. Another good canidate.
Jerry
On 01/13/16 04:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
I was reading in a dated magazine article on the
"freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?
Happy computing.
Murray :)
3092
days inactive
3094
days old
27 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cube1＠charter.net -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
isking＠uw.edu -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jrr＠flippers.com -
other＠oryx.us -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pbirkel＠gmail.com -
rwiker＠gmail.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com