21 May
1998
21 May
'98
7:22 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty <Marty(a)itgonline.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, 21 May 1998 22:47
Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers...
Are you refering to the original 16KB-64KB motherboard
5150 PC or do
you mean the 64KB-256KB motherboard 5150 PC? I have only seen two
original 16KB-64KB 5150 PC's. I'm certain there must be plenty of them
out there but I never see them. I see the 64KB-256KB motherboard
5150's everywhere.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Prices to pay for old computers...
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 5/21/98 5:45 AM
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC.......
now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have
one
in its original box will all manuals and
all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair
price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross
have been upgraded,
treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there
are
no manuals in site..............
but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a
fairer price........
You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to
allow for some systems that have manuals, disks,
boxes etc.............
systhems in these conditions are few and far between............
this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other
peoples
comments..............
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:36:13 +1000
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From: "Desie Hay" <desieh(a)southcom.com.au>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Prices to pay for old computers...
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yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............
I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and
16KB of RAM............
no floppy drives.............
oh well
22 May
22 May
3:03 a.m.
At 17:22 5/22/98 +1000, Desie wrote:
yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb
model............
I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and
16KB of RAM............
no floppy drives.............
oh well
Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series,
called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC
is
alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my
intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not
auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.)
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
6:11 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers...)
Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been
two distinct series,
called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K,
What distinguishes the two series?
I hope that "16K" means "16/64K model" as opposed to "actually
equipped with
16K of memory."
-- Derek
7:08 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers...)
At 11:11 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
As noted, I don't know. I'm hoping that someone like Tony does.
Of the 16K-64K
mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series,
called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K,
What distinguishes the two series? I hope that "16K" means "16/64K
model" as opposed to "actually equipped with
16K of memory."
Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K
installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively
common, although worth keeping; it's like the difference between a Lisa One
and a Lisa 2.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
8:03 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers...)
>I hope that "16K" means "16/64K
model" as opposed to "actually equipped with
>16K of memory."
Yup, came with 16k soldered down and room to add DRAM up to a whopping 64k.
Likewise the 64/256 board is the same, 64k soldered on, and room up to 156k. The
AT 5160 only goes to 512k on the board....
I have one of each, a 16k and a 64k. The 64k board is in it's original case with
an original type monitor and keyboard. I'm not sure whether or not the 16k board
even works.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
8:53 a.m.
New subject: ADTEK System Science VEM16
I picked up a nice single-board 8088 from 1982 today. It has an on-board
keypad and 7 7-segment LEDs. It's made by ADTEK, apparently a Japanese
SBC maker. Oddly, it also has microphone and earphone jacks! Anybody
know anything about this oddball?
-- Doug
11:09 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
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1:05 p.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
Tony Duell wrote:
So what people are saying is that if you find one with all 4 rows of 16K
chips fitted, it becomes more valuable if 3 of the rows are pulled?
Strange...
You can get one with just the fixed DRAM and insert more all you want, and if you get
one populated and want it stripped to the bare 16k then you just get out your "chip
puller" (the can opener on my utility knife is mine) and remove the extra rows. No
big
deal. Finding the boards in either configuration is the main idea here, you can always
get 4164 DRAMs.
The fingers and the brain just don't get together much anymore ;-o
>I hope that "16K" means
"16/64K model" as opposed to "actually equipped with
>16K of memory."
Yup, came with 16k soldered down and room to add DRAM up to a whopping 64k. This is the sort of thing which will make me leave the
computer
collecting world, alas. I can remember when computer collecting was fun -
you went to a radio rally, or to the local(ish) junk shop and came home
with a pile of bits. Fiddled with them, got them working, hacked about a
bit, modified things a bit, and learnt a lot. Now, if we're going to have
high-priced machines for no good reason, then I'm outa here...
It still is! It always will be a tinkerer's heaven to get a machine you know
absolutely nothing about and get it to a level where you know enough to be dangerous
and maybe even get it to work. That's the challenge, whether it's collecting old
radios, model trains, pooters, cars, etc.
Likewise the
64/256 board is the same, 64k soldered on, and room up to 156k. The
AT 5160 only goes to 512k on the board....
^^^^
You mean 5170. The 5160 is the XT. Talking of XTs, there are officially 2 versions of
that motherboard - the
64K-256K board and the 256K-604K board. It's not generally known how to
turn the former into the latter, so here goes (assuming you want 640K in
the end):
Wouldn't that hurt, 640k in "the end"??
Remove the board from the case.
Remove the 64K DRAMs from banks 0 and 1. Put 256K *1 (41256 or
equivalent) chips in these 2 banks. Put/leave 64K chips in banks 2 and 3.
Put a 74S158 multiplexer chip in the empty socket near the front of the
board, same way round as all the other chips near it.
Solder a link between (I think) pads E1 and E2 near the right hand edge
of the the board.
That's it - you now have 640K on the motherboard. I've done this to
serveral XT's (and to my 5155 portable), with no problems. The schematics
in the techref are otherwise indentical.
I have done this now to at least 8 XT's and it works fine on all of them, and it
appears that maybe IBM incorporated the same when they started manufacturing the 640k
series. The boards look very similar otherwise. When I had this nasty little Sanyo
MBC-55x machine we did a similar hack that made it 768k with a switch to bring it down
to 640k (for programs that couldn't deal with the overdose). Cost about $15 in parts
besides the extra DRAM chips and ungodly hours of leaning over a soldering iron making
delicate heat sensitive stacks of DRAMS 3 high and hooking up a pin of each chip to a
wire that went to a separate 74 series chip. After doiing that mod to over 20 machines
of friends and those I had mailed to me, I permanently swore off on the little silver
wastebaskets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
23 May
23 May
5:03 a.m.
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24 May
24 May
3:45 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
Tony Duell wrote:
Nope, 4164's are what came in them and what work. It may be that they're
interchangeable, the 4116's and 4164's...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
deal. Finding
the boards in either configuration is the main idea here,
you can always get 4164 DRAMs.
Actually I think you mean 4116 RAMs here.
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
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1:38 p.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
Tony Duell wrote:
The older (and possibly more valuable) 16K-64K system
board uses 4116s.
Each row of 9 chips is 16K bytes of memory. Again, a maximum of 4 rows on
the board.
That's probably what I was think ing since it was the XT I was just working on a
week ago. Too many machines, too little gray matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
22 May
22 May
3:28 p.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
Tony Duell wrote:
So what people are saying is that if you find one with all 4 rows of 16K
chips fitted, it becomes more valuable if 3 of the rows are pulled?
Strange...
This is the sort of thing which will make me leave the computer
collecting world, alas. I can remember when computer collecting was fun -
you went to a radio rally, or to the local(ish) junk shop and came home
with a pile of bits. Fiddled with them, got them working, hacked about a
bit, modified things a bit, and learnt a lot. Now, if we're going to have
high-priced machines for no good reason, then I'm outa here...
Me too. I collect computers (well, it wasn't the original plan, but
I have this trouble throwing things away and eventually I decided I
might as well start filling some of the gaps), not collectibles. If
the machines I want are "collector's items" I'll stop looking for
them -- I hadn't been in the market for Apples or Altairs anyway --
but there are a few Tandy/Radio Shack machines I really want, that
being the line with the gaps -- I've got representatives of every
product line except for the PC compatibles that I don't care about --
hell, I do have a 1000/TL2, but I still don't care about it -- I
mostly use it as lab rat to test viruses -- amazing how overblown the
news is about viruses, considering how few of them work.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
>I hope that "16K" means
"16/64K model" as opposed to "actually equipped with
>16K of memory."
Yup, came with 16k soldered down and room to add DRAM up to a whopping 64k.
8:46 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
What
distinguishes the two series?
As noted, I don't know. I'm hoping that someone like Tony does. I hope that
"16K" means "16/64K model" as opposed to "actually equipped with
16K of memory."
Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K
installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively
common, although worth keeping; it's like the difference between a Lisa One
and a Lisa 2. 
7:55 a.m.
New subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers...)
At 11:11 AM 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
There were two different models. The later model has a "B" stenciled in
white ink above the keyboard connector and was 256K on the mobo with hard
disk support and a couple other enhancements. There was a ROM BIOS upgrade
to allow the 16K model to support 640K RAM and a hard disk. I haven't seen
the ROM in years--last time I found them there was some guy who had a whole
box of sticks and was charging an arm and a leg--and getting it. I think
you can probably just dupe the ROM from the 256K box, but i haven't tried it.
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
Of the 16K-64K
mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series,
called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K,
What distinguishes the two series?
I hope that "16K" means "16/64K model" as opposed to "actually
equipped with
16K of memory."
-- Derek
1:38 p.m.
Desie Hay wrote:
yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb
model............
I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and
16KB of RAM............
no floppy drives.............
oh well
Probably less than there are TRS-80 Color Computers with 4K RAM and
non-Extended BASIC, since those still run the programs designed for
them. (I have a couple of those CoCos, then again I prefer Motorola
to Intel even on my bad days -- work, where I have to suck up to
those damned NT Pentia).
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
4:52 p.m.
First, a quick gripe.
Desie, could you please edit your reply messages as to not include 100
lines of superfluous header?
On Fri, 22 May 1998, Desie Hay wrote:
yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb
model............
I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and
16KB of RAM............
no floppy drives.............
oh well
Well, every single 16-64kb motherboard 5150's I've ever gotten (and I
think I have two) have a disk drive in them. I don't think its that big
of a deal to remove one if you want to make it "original". But as far as
all the original 5150's I've ever come across (a lot), every single one of
them have at least one disk drive, if not two disk drives, or one drive
and a hard drive. I don't think many people bought an IBM PC without
either buying an installed 5.25" drive with it or adding one shortly
thereafter.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
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