23 Jul
2015
23 Jul
'15
1:11 p.m.
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
Murray :)
24 Jul
24 Jul
8:30 a.m.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015, Murray McCullough wrote:
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
Was that the same Richard Heiser who achieved fame in the audio world for
developing the technique of TEF (Time/Energy/Frequency) analysis?
--
9:42 a.m.
On Jul 23, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Murray McCullough
<c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote:
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
Was that really first? I remember Rainbow Computing, in Northridge. If it was later than
that, it certainly was not by much.
paul
3:51 p.m.
> A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
> the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
> Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
> opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Paul Koning wrote:
Was that really first? I remember Rainbow Computing,
in Northridge.
If it was later than that, it certainly was not by much.
There are many "photo-finish" and "photo-start" events in this
industry.
Many, if not most, "first"s in computers had overlapping development
times. I remember a few times where the setup staffs at Comdex were
frantically trying to get their booths together in order to be the first
one to boot up their machine, in order to claim to have introduced it
before somebody else. In the end, it is only the big money people whose
claims get listened to - Adam Osborne with $100K? of chrome and black
plexiglass, or a 10x10 booth across the aisle made out of flush doors and
file cabinets?
Is "FIRST" based on
design?
prototypes?
prototypes being misrepresented as production machines?
first public demo?
first trade show?
first sale? preorder?
first shipped?
first delivered?
Such differentiations obviously are petty, but have always played a part
in almost every "FIRST" claim.
11:18 a.m.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015, Murray McCullough wrote:
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
What did they sell in 1975?
I remember reading articles in "73 Magazine" circa 1976 about the
interesting things that could be done with an 8008, some 2102s, and 500
linear feet of wirewrap but I was doing broadcast elctronics maintenance for
a living and far more inclined to race bicycles than dabble in electronics
in my spare time. Five years later I working in computing instead of
broadcasting and everthing started to change.
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
11:24 a.m.
Oh I don't know...I think these had some interest in 1975
http://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.cfm
Also take a look at the run of Byte mags published in 1975, plus
People's Computer Company Newsletters from 1975.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Richard Loken
<richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015, Murray McCullough wrote:
--
Bill
vintagecomputer.net
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around
this time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
What did they sell in 1975?
I remember reading articles in "73 Magazine" circa 1976 about the
interesting things that could be done with an 8008, some 2102s, and 500
linear feet of wirewrap but I was doing broadcast elctronics maintenance for
a living and far more inclined to race bicycles than dabble in electronics
in my spare time. Five years later I working in computing instead of
broadcasting and everthing started to change.
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
12:02 p.m.
On 07/24/2015 08:24 AM, william degnan wrote:
Oh I don't know...I think these had some interest
in 1975
http://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.cfm
I remember Paul Terrell opining the Byte Shop in late 1975. You could
buy the MITS stuff as well as the Apple. Things were moving pretty
quickly back then. I believe mention was made in an early MITS newsletter.
--Chuck
2 p.m.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I remember Paul Terrell opining the Byte Shop in late
1975. You could
buy the MITS stuff as well as the Apple. Things were moving pretty
quickly back then. I believe mention was made in an early MITS newsletter.
Ah that was my question. I did not pay attention to computers at all until
1980 and it another five or more years before I had any interest something
that could be lifted by one man.
My interest is still largely confined to big iron.
I am sort of curious about whether a computer store in 1975 sold only parts
and kits or whether assemble self supporting packages were starting to
appear. Was this still the era of the front panel and the S100 bus or had
they move onto stuff like the Kaypro and the Apple ][?
Circa 1988 I bought a TRS80 Model II with an external drive cabinet and an
immense Tandy printer for $100.00. As far as I recall, the prof who sold it
to me had paid about $10,000.00 for it around 1978. It was still pretty
hard to lift without help.
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
2:51 p.m.
On 07/24/2015 11:00 AM, Richard Loken wrote:
I am sort of curious about whether a computer store in
1975 sold only parts
and kits or whether assemble self supporting packages were starting to
appear. Was this still the era of the front panel and the S100 bus or had
they move onto stuff like the Kaypro and the Apple ][?
I vaguely remember (it's been 40 years) that there was a complete MITS
system for demonstration and that you could order and purchase board and
system kits. I wasn't terribly interested in Apple, so don't remember
much of them. In early 1976, their offerings were pretty thin, but they
attracted a lot of interest.
I do recall that other outfits such as Jade Computer Products had retail
stores--there was one on El Camino in Sunnyvale, for example. Around
1982-83, I recall visiting them trying to decide between a
Compupro/Godbout S100 8086 or 85/88 setup and the then very new NEC
APC. (I ended up going to San Jose and buying a IBM PC, which I thought
was ridiculously overpriced). I decided against the really awesome APC
due to lack of technical documentation--for $100, I could get complete
circuit diagrams and BIOS listings for the IBM PC. My friend who ran a
bicycle parts operation, settled on a Morrow MD3, which came with
software and printer for much less than the PC.
All in all, it's remarkable to reflect back on the number of B&M retail
stores that were set up to sell computer gear in the early 1980s. TI
had computer stores which also sold calculators (I recall one in the
Stanford Shopping Center), Sears sold PCs as well as others from their
computer stores; CDC had a retail operation; Xerox did also. Then there
were the general-purpose business retail operations such as Moore and
Inmac. Of course, Radio Shack sold their own brands also. And that's
not counting software sales outfits, such as Egghead.
Compared to what's around now, it feels a lot less crowded. But the
same is true for electronic surplus places, such as Halted, Haltek, ACE,
Weird Stuff....
--Chuck
4:18 p.m.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Richard Loken wrote:
Ah that was my question. I did not pay attention to
computers at all until
1980 and it another five or more years before I had any interest something
that could be lifted by one man.
My interest is still largely confined to big iron.
I am sort of curious about whether a computer store in 1975 sold only parts
and kits or whether assemble self supporting packages were starting to
appear. Was this still the era of the front panel and the S100 bus or had
they move onto stuff like the Kaypro and the Apple ][?
Circa 1988 I bought a TRS80 Model II with an external drive cabinet and an
immense Tandy printer for $100.00. As far as I recall, the prof who sold it
to me had paid about $10,000.00 for it around 1978. It was still pretty
hard to lift without help.
Ah, we all have different times that we heard about microcomputers V when
we became interested in them, based on personal criteria that they had to
meet to be what we might want to have.
You mention, "could be lifted by one man", which happens to coincide with
one of my favorite DEFINITIONs of "microcomputer". All of the definitions
have some level of subjectivity - different physical strengths, or
abilities to lose different size things, etc.
You also mention front panel V Kaypro and Apple (with integrated keyboard,
and screen might or might not be integral). For some people, a computer
connected to a terminal didn't get their interest, until that was
built-in.
I went around to the computer stores (we had 3 of them here in 1978),
but what they had was still out of my reach.
My personal decision points were: programmable in a high-level language
and <$500. For me, those were first met by TRS80 ($400 with my own CCTV
monitor; $600 with monitor and cassette)
Murray's personal decision points were apparently first met by
Coleco Adam.
Writers in the computer history genre usually acknowledge
some "pre-history" (usually starting with Altair's appearance
on a magazine cover (how many machines were available for sale
at THAT time?)).
Then, they mention a few other prehistoric machines, that they had
personally seen, but were unable/uninterested in buying, and get to
"The First PRACTICAL Computer", which was, of course, the first one
that they felt finally met their needs.
That used to be Apple/TRS80/PET. But, as we age, newer writers think
of computers as starting with PC, Mac, or AT, with all earlier ones being
consigned to that "unusable" prehistory category ("You can't DO
anything
without a hard drive", "Unusable without WYSIWYG", etc.)
Now, obviously, the first "REAL" computer needed to have internet
connectivity.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:53 p.m.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 07/24/2015 01:18 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
It's not a real computer unless it has a real front panel with
switches and blinkenlights. Real computers haven't been commercially
sold in ages.
A keypad and display scanned by software, e.g., Heath H8, doesn't
qualify; an important purpose of the front panel is to examine and
modify memory for diagnostic purposes when the computer isn't working
properly.
The KL10 CPU used in later PDP-10 systems (DECsystem-10 and
DECSYSTEM-20) doesn't qualify because the only real front panel is on
the PDP-11 front end; there's no front panel to examine and modify
main system memory.
Now, obviously, the first "REAL"
computer needed to have internet
connectivity.
---and a USB port. :) 
9:12 p.m.
On 07/24/2015 04:20 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Eric Smith
wrote:
Ever watch any old reruns of "Wonder
Woman". Lots of blinkin' lights;
no computer. Or you could watch old "The Outer Limits" episodes where
clicking of relays and beeps and boops seems to accompany real computers.
Or you could just get a floor-standing vacuum-column tape drive and spin
the reels back and forth...
--Chuck
It's not a real computer unless it has a real
front panel with
switches and blinkenlights.
9:41 p.m.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 07/24/2015 04:20 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
That's exactly what the Hollywood prop people do:
http://woodysprops.com/item.php?uid=133&page=6
These are from a Burroughs B205 system, and rigged up to spin the reels
and blink the lights.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Eric
Smith wrote:
Ever watch any old reruns of "Wonder
Woman". Lots of blinkin' lights;
no computer. Or you could watch old "The Outer Limits" episodes where
clicking of relays and beeps and boops seems to accompany real computers.
Or you could just get a floor-standing vacuum-column tape drive and spin the
reels back and forth... It's not a real computer unless it has a
real front panel with
switches and blinkenlights.
10:02 p.m.
On 7/24/2015 6:41 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Time Tunnel had a lot of scenes with "computery" looking gizmos,
probably including these drives.
But more panels with meters, displays and blinking lights.
On 07/24/2015 04:20 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
That's exactly what the Hollywood prop people do:
http://woodysprops.com/item.php?uid=133&page=6
These are from a Burroughs B205 system, and rigged up to spin the
reels and blink the lights.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Eric
Smith wrote:
Ever watch any old reruns of "Wonder
Woman". Lots of blinkin' lights;
no computer. Or you could watch old "The Outer Limits" episodes where
clicking of relays and beeps and boops seems to accompany real
computers.
Or you could just get a floor-standing vacuum-column tape drive and
spin the reels back and forth... It's not a real computer unless it has a
real front panel with
switches and blinkenlights.
Mike Loewen mloewen at
cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
11:21 p.m.
On 07/24/2015 06:41 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
That's exactly what the Hollywood prop people do:
http://woodysprops.com/item.php?uid=133&page=6
These are from a Burroughs B205 system, and rigged up to spin the
reels and blink the lights.
Sometimes a prop is also a real, functioning computer:
http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=300
--Chuck
26 Jul
26 Jul
8:22 a.m.
Remember when USB was referred to as the Useless Serial Bus after it was introduced? I
think it was a solid 1-2 years after it was introduced that I began to notice peripherals
designed for it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 24, 2015, at 4:58 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at
sydex.com> wrote:
---and a USB port. :)
--Chuck
9:12 a.m.
Remember when USB was referred to as the Useless Serial Bus after it was introduced? I
think it was a solid 1-2
years after it was introduced that I began to notice peripherals designed for it.
I still call it 'Useless Serial Botch' most of the time. It's not a bus, after
all.
-tony
3:15 p.m.
On 07/26/2015 06:12 AM, tony duell wrote:
The first USB devices were utterly terrible--I've got a few that work
only with certain controllers--modern controllers are absolutely blind
to the things.
It seems to me (and I'll defer to more experienced hands) that USB is
not wonderful for single- or low-count byte transfers; that the
negotiation overhead makes short transfers rather problematic,
particularly where the topology involves multiple hubs. In other words,
USB is well-suited to block transfers.
Is this a fair assessment?
And the proliferation of unofficial VID and PIDs seems to be an issue,
particularly with Chinese-origin devices. "Squatting" seems to be a
practice also: VID 0001 = Fry's Electronics; 0004 = Nebraska Furniture
Mart--really? I've found Chinese USB devices squatting on the Linksys
VID, with a non-Linksys PID.
Really, it's a mess.
--Chuck
Remember when USB was referred to as the Useless Serial Bus after
it was introduced? I think it was a solid 1-2 years after it was
introduced that I began to notice peripherals designed for it.
I still call it 'Useless Serial Botch' most of the time. It's not a
bus, after all. 
4:30 p.m.
On 7/26/15 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 07/26/2015 06:12 AM, tony duell wrote:
The first USB devices were utterly terrible--I've got a few that work
only with certain controllers--modern controllers are absolutely blind
to the things.
It seems to me (and I'll defer to more experienced hands) that USB is
not wonderful for single- or low-count byte transfers; that the
negotiation overhead makes short transfers rather problematic,
particularly where the topology involves multiple hubs. In other
words, USB is well-suited to block transfers.
Is this a fair assessment?
And the proliferation of unofficial VID and PIDs seems to be an issue,
particularly with Chinese-origin devices. "Squatting" seems to be a
practice also: VID 0001 = Fry's Electronics; 0004 = Nebraska
Furniture Mart--really? I've found Chinese USB devices squatting on
the Linksys VID, with a non-Linksys PID.
Really, it's a mess.
Saw the same thing with ethernet controllers that were "clones" of DEC's
2114x chips. Some of them had PCI vendor and device codes that
indicated they were DEC but weren't. They also didn't behave properly
in all cases.
The whole VID & PID works because of "gentleman's agreements" (ie use
your own VID and don't pretend to be someone else's). It's not clear
how to solve this for folks that don't follow the rules.
TTFN - Guy
Remember when USB was referred to as the Useless Serial Bus after
it was introduced? I think it was a solid 1-2 years after it was
introduced that I began to notice peripherals designed for it.
I still call it 'Useless Serial Botch' most of the time. It's not a
bus, after all. 
4:52 p.m.
The whole VID & PID works because of
"gentleman's agreements" (ie use
your own VID and don't pretend to be someone else's). It's not clear
how to solve this for folks that don't follow the rules.
If it is a gentleman's agreement (i.e. no licensing/certification fees) why
wouldn't people use their own VID/PID? Is it because they do not want to
develop drivers?
5:10 p.m.
On 07/26/2015 01:52 PM, Ali wrote:
Nope - it's because the USB-IF says "Cross our palms with silver and
we'll issue you a real VID. Ask us to enforce VID allocation, however,
and well, we just don't have the resources."
--Chuck
The whole VID & PID works because of
"gentleman's agreements" (ie
use your own VID and don't pretend to be someone else's). It's not
clear how to solve this for folks that don't follow the rules.
If it is a gentleman's agreement (i.e. no licensing/certification
fees) why wouldn't people use their own VID/PID? Is it because they
do not want to develop drivers? 
5:12 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ali
Sent: 26 July 2015 21:53
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: First Computer Store
why
The whole VID & PID works because of
"gentleman's agreements" (ie use
your own VID and don't pretend to be someone else's). It's not clear
how to solve this for folks that don't follow the rules.
If it is a gentleman's agreement (i.e. no licensing/certification fees) wouldn't people use their own VID/PID? Is it
because they do not want to
develop drivers?
Its not a gentlemens agreement. The USB.ORG sue folks who try and sell block
of IDs.
http://www.voti.nl/docs/usb-pid.html
so folks just pinch them..
Dave
6:01 p.m.
On 7/26/15 2:12 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Yes, but they don't seem to sue folks who just create clones of someone
else's VID/PID.
I suspect the problem is more of trying to avoid the costs of
developing/adapting S/W for their
particular device, which is why they "clone" an existing device rather
than creating one of their
own from scratch.
TTFN - Guy
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ali
Sent: 26 July 2015 21:53
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: First Computer Store
why
The whole VID & PID works because of
"gentleman's agreements" (ie use
your own VID and don't pretend to be someone else's). It's not clear
how to solve this for folks that don't follow the rules.
If it is a
gentleman's agreement (i.e. no licensing/certification fees) wouldn't people use their own VID/PID? Is it
because they do not want to
develop drivers?
Its not a gentlemens agreement. The USB.ORG sue folks who try and
sell block
of IDs.
9:50 p.m.
On 07/26/2015 03:01 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Yes, but they don't seem to sue folks who just
create clones of
someone else's VID/PID.
I suspect the problem is more of trying to avoid the costs of
developing/adapting S/W for their particular device, which is why
they "clone" an existing device rather than creating one of their own
from scratch.
Heck, they don't sue people who roll their own PIDs and use someone
else's VID.
Maybe they think that that's the prerogative of the VID owner. But what
does one do if the VID owner no longer is in business?
The ultimate solution would probably be to run a 64 or 128-bit counter
that *anyone* can use to get universal device ID. Essentially it's a
scheme to inflate the value of VID/PID pairs. No profit in
appropriating someone else's.
--Chuck
5:15 p.m.
[USB]
And the proliferation of unofficial VID and PIDs seems to be an
issue, [...] Really, it's a mess.
I concur.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
24 Jul
24 Jul
2:40 p.m.
On 2015-Jul-24, at 8:24 AM, william degnan wrote:
Oh I don't know...I think these had some interest
in 1975
http://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.cfm
Also take a look at the run of Byte mags published in 1975, plus
People's Computer Company Newsletters from 1975.
We had a Byte Shop here in backwater Vancouver fairly early, as I recall.
I think my dad's friend with an IMSAI was getting S100 stuff from them, which would
have been 1976 or 77.
A "Computer World" and "computer land" showed up within a few years at
latest - I have receipts for Apple II stuff from all three dated 1981.
3:17 p.m.
> A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
> the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
> Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
> opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Richard Loken wrote:
What did they sell in 1975?
I remember reading articles in "73 Magazine" circa 1976 about the
interesting things that could be done with an 8008, some 2102s, and 500
linear feet of wirewrap but I was doing broadcast elctronics maintenance for
a living and far more inclined to race bicycles than dabble in electronics
in my spare time. Five years later I working in computing instead of
broadcasting and everthing started to change.
Stan Veit, claiming to have run the SECOND computer store (in New York
city), backs up the statement that Heiser started the first one.
In 1976, Veit sold IIMSAIs, and Sphere. This was largely due to him being
unwilling to become a franchise of "The Computer Store" out of Boston, who
had an exclusive on Altairs for the the northeast. He doesn't say when
"The Computer Store" opened their first actual retail store, but he was
well established when they opened one in New York.
11:29 a.m.
tor 2015-07-23 klockan 13:11 -0400 skrev Murray McCullough:
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
Murray :)
Doesn't IBM's showroom in New York City counts ?
I think it was possible to walk in there and strike a deal for an 360 !
The salesmen force and Thomas Watson was upstairs.
11:38 a.m.
I have some slides of the IBM Customer Center from 1980, recently
scanned and I need to put them online. Yes, you could buy things like
system 36/38, Displaywriters, typewriters, printers, etc. Just before
the IBM PC. By 1980 the portable 5100 was not present, but I am sure
you could buy a 5100 from a customer center in 1975. Good point. I
think the original poster was referring to one of the first
independent microcomputer stores. There is a huge bias assumption
towards "first [micro]computer" whatever, conveniently ignoring the
huge volume of mini and mainframes sold at the same time.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Stefan Skoglund
<stefan.skoglund at agj.net> wrote:
tor 2015-07-23 klockan 13:11 -0400 skrev Murray
McCullough:
--
Bill
vintagecomputer.net
A momentus event happened 40 years ago around
this time, July 1975,
the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
Murray :)
Doesn't IBM's showroom in New York City counts ?
I think it was possible to walk in there and strike a deal for an 360 !
The salesmen force and Thomas Watson was upstairs.
3:32 p.m.
> A momentus event happened 40 years ago around this
time, July 1975,
> the world's first computer store opened in West Los Angeles, called
> Arrow Head Computer Store, tag-lined, 'The Computer Store'. It was
> opened by Dick Heiser. How time has flown by!
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Stefan Skoglund wrote:
Doesn't IBM's showroom in New York City counts
?
I think it was possible to walk in there and strike a deal for an 360 !
The salesmen force and Thomas Watson was upstairs.
Yes, as usual, all such claims are meaningless without term definitions.
What Murray was referring to was arguably the first PERSONAL computer
store, and run as a retail storefront.
IBM did do some retail sales, although they might not have called it
"retail", out of their building.
Even "first" and "store" could use some restrictive definition:
Do sales out of a living room count?
garage?
corner of another kind of store?
(there already seems to be an exclusion of mail-order)
If a grocery store clears space in an aisle does that count?
Did Ed Roberts have a front counter, and handle walk-in?
Assembled working systems? or do kits count?
Signing lease?
Acquiring retail inventory?
Opening of doors to the public?
First retail sale?
First Order? or
First Delivery?
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oltmansg＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
richardlo＠admin.athabascau.ca -
snhirsch＠gmail.com -
spacewar＠gmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net