Paper works for me. When we reincarnated our late 1970s PDP 11/40 college environment using the simh simulator, we had no copies of programs on magtape or disk or paper tape. It was all based on program and file printouts from 1978 on greenbar paper printed on an LA36 DecWriter. We had to do *LOTS* of typing because OCR didn't work well on aged LA36 greenbar printours. But the paper listings were readable by our 40-something failing eyes and we ended up faithfully reproducing the system that we once knew, loved, and spent many many late nights on. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: cd longevity How

On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jay West wrote: Actually, if ya wanna go techno-retro - we found (MGM Studios / Library of Congress / Filmbond Archival Institute) that the most long-lived medium for this kind of work is optically encoded data on well-processed Mylar linear film of some kind. With proper encoding techniques, one can get bit densities of more than a megabyte per inch - of standard 35MM sprocketed stock - of course an order of magnitude more using 70MM - and even more if wider stock is used. Carfully processed Mylar, with proper attention to washing and drying, will survive more than 150 years before degradation, if packed and sealed against the environment - and stored in a 'normal' temperature range. And of course the devices to read the data are just a light source and array of photo-sensors, with perhaps some simple optics for focussing and image expansion. I've seen a prototype film-sound reproducing device using IR LEDs and a video scanner chip - with the image being decoded back into sound on a cheap laptop - and this was 5 years ago.... But plastic mono-layer photographic stock film has the longest life and a very high BPI density as well. Cheers John

Quothe Jay West, from writings of Fri, May 07, 2004 at 10:07:22AM -0500: Acid-free paper printouts, that is, and store as much as possible on multiple hard drives, in multiple systems, utilizing good backup strategies. ...and to think that some people thought that I was crazy because of all that I've said in the past about CD ROT, particularly in discussions pertaining to the superiority of vinyl LP's for audio vs. CDs. :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) Darn... and they're treating it like it's new news. Heh! :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheh :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) heh heh heh :-) :-) :-) :-) heheheheheh :-) :-) :-) And check out the bizarre quote: "Irons is still pretty happy with CD technology, since it beats vinyl LPs and tape for longevity. Now that he's moved his discs to an apartment with a more stable temperature, he's noticed that the decay has slowed." Vinyl LP's, carefully maintained, have a lifetime estimated to be 100 years or more; when played on high-quality turntables, wear isn't really an issue. Unfortunately, no mention was made of CDs using a gold layer which is supposed to greatly increase their durability. Didn't Kodak discontinue their manufacture of such gold CDs a while back due to a lack of demand for them? -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.