23 Mar
1999
23 Mar
'99
3:16 p.m.
Surprisingly good market for $100-200 computers, of the
386/486 variety.
People on Unemployment, Supporting Parent and Invalid Pensions can't
afford to buy $1500 new computers, and typically just want to play a few
games and do a little word processing......
That sounds like part of what I was thinking of as well... a place where
people could bring all sorts of random PC parts and help put systems
together for people who might not otherwise be able to afford a computer
system... We'd be able to do a service for people...
Seriously, I think your concept is good, biggest
headache is floor space,
my bet is that you need to set up in a smaller place, a country town, not
too far from a big city, but where the rents for warehouse space don't
look like the NASA budget. I suspect this is why most museums I've
seen/heard of concentrate on desktop stuff, they don't need a huge area
to house it.
That is a problem... cost for space. I decided to call around today
and see if I could get a ballpark idea of what space might cost. So
far I've only gotten through to one place -- an old mill complex in
Saxonville, Mass. When I called, I was told that all they had left was
a 2500 sq-ft area... at *$8* per sq-ft. That's US$20000 (I believe for
a year), $1667/month. If this could be a club formed as a non-profit
organization, and if I could get $10/month out of people, we'd need
167 members just to pay for the space... Then we have electric, which
I would suspect will be a major part of the cost for such a power-oriented
hobby.
I know of one group who has space at $3/sq-ft, and a person who posted
recently saying that they had space for free...
I've got a call into Whittier Partners about space at the Maynard, Mass.
mill complex (birthplace of DEC) but have not gotten a call back yet.
Does anyone know if there might happen to be any grants or something
equivalent that such an organization might be able to apply for?
Doing a little more thinking about memberships, I was thinking of
a tiered approach (typical) which ranks members on their level of
usage of the facilities. And maybe there could be breaks for those
who provide help to others... (just some more rambling)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
23 Mar
23 Mar
3:48 p.m.
Saxonville, Mass. When I called, I was told that all
they had left was
a 2500 sq-ft area... at *$8* per sq-ft. That's US$20000 (I believe for
a year), $1667/month. If this could be a club formed as a non-profit
organization, and if I could get $10/month out of people, we'd need
167 members just to pay for the space... Then we have electric, which
I would suspect will be a major part of the cost for such a power-oriented
hobby.
Don't forget this is America, land of the lawsuit, something like this
would potentially need some hefty insurance because of all the "dangerous
items".
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
4 p.m.
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Megan wrote:
That is a problem... cost for space. I decided to
call around today
and see if I could get a ballpark idea of what space might cost. So
far I've only gotten through to one place -- an old mill complex in
Saxonville, Mass. When I called, I was told that all they had left was
a 2500 sq-ft area... at *$8* per sq-ft. That's US$20000 (I believe for
a year), $1667/month. If this could be a club formed as a non-profit
organization, and if I could get $10/month out of people, we'd need
167 members just to pay for the space... Then we have electric, which
I would suspect will be a major part of the cost for such a power-oriented
hobby.
I know of one group who has space at $3/sq-ft, and a person who posted
recently saying that they had space for free...
You've got to do a LOT of calling around. And be prepared to be depressed
at the prices you get quoted. I was fortunate to get the deal I currently
have (and its only temporary, at some point I'll have to start paying).
Try looking for places that have extra space they won't need or don't ever
intend to use. You can sublet for probably a little less per sqft than
market rate.
Also, try to be more flexible with what you want and where you want it.
You might find find a useable space at a very reasonable price that's a
little farther out than you wanted, but the increased driving (and
hauling) time may be worth it. Thanks to the booming economy, space is
just not cheap these days, so there will be trade offs.
Speaking of hauling distance, that is one thing to consider. You don't
want the space to be opposite of where you'll be hauling most of your
stuff from. Also, it should be a space that has access for large
machines, preferably with a ramp, or at least no obstacles into the space,
and large doors to fit big 7ft tall cabinets.
Does anyone know if there might happen to be any
grants or something
equivalent that such an organization might be able to apply for?
If you create a non-profit organization then it will be much easier to get
companies to sponsor you in exhangce for tax write-offs.
Doing a little more thinking about memberships, I was
thinking of
a tiered approach (typical) which ranks members on their level of
usage of the facilities. And maybe there could be breaks for those
who provide help to others... (just some more rambling)
I plan to make it just enough to cover expenses (once I start incurring
any) and maybe a little more to add extra amenities as needed. A tiered
system is probably a good idea. I'd also trade upkeep work (like
sweeping, lifting, organizing, hauling, etc.) for membership dues.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
28 Mar
28 Mar
2:59 a.m.
New subject: OT: Re: Museums
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Thanks to the booming economy, space is just not cheap
these days, so
there will be trade offs.
Ah! So there are tangible benefits to living in depressed areas like
Montreal. :) (What is it, 11% unemployment these days? But cheap rent
and lots of vacancies...)
--
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
23 Mar
23 Mar
6:31 p.m.
At 09:16 PM 3/23/99 -0500, Megan wrote:
That is a problem... cost for space. ... at *$8* per
sq-ft.
Depends on what you look for. Space in "warehouse" districts is cheaper
than space in "office" districts which is often cheaper than space in
"retail" districts. Sometimes you can find a company that has
'downsized'
and is willing to sublet part of their space for more like $1.50 - $3.00 sq
ft. The down side is that they will either restrict you to a year, or worse
only offer a month to month lease. Nothing worse than moving a collection
in 30 days because the lease won't get renewed!
Also check your local school district. They are amenable to such
arrangements especially if you can become an asset to the district with
perhaps "field trip" opportunities and the occasional class room
demonstration. I can attest to the fact that a PDP-8 will hold a group of
3rd graders enthralled for an hour easy :-)
I hear there are some of the Rt 128 DEC buildings are sitting empty,
perhaps they will give you a discount if you only run DEC equipment in them :-)
--Chuck
8:11 p.m.
Megan wrote:
Does anyone know if there might happen to be any grants or something
equivalent that such an organization might be able to apply for?
Doing a little more thinking about memberships, I was thinking of
a tiered approach (typical) which ranks members on their level of
usage of the facilities. And maybe there could be breaks for those
who provide help to others... (just some more rambling)
I have done some checking into financing such a venture and it appears that,
at least out here, seed money could probably be made available. The biggest
problem is ongoing support for overhead. Some friends of mine had talked
about a number of ways to help support such a venture:
Gift Shop
Computer Classes
ISP
Memberships
Special events/services for people making larger donations (gotta be careful
of the tax code here though)
Peripheral Services that could be provided by the older machines
Admission charges
Monthly Newsletter/Magazine
And the list goes on. I think Sam said it best though when he said it takes
vision and persistance! It goes without saying that a number of dedicated
people with the appropriate time and energy to get it started would be
required. Starting life as a 501C3 corp sounds like a good start. Another
way that can help ease getting money is to ensure that education is involved
for kids; classes, demonstrations, etc.
9:13 p.m.
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Marvin wrote:
<...>
Doing a little
more thinking about memberships, I was thinking of
a tiered approach (typical) which ranks members on their level of
usage of the facilities. And maybe there could be breaks for those
who provide help to others... (just some more rambling)
I have done some checking into financing such a venture and it appears that,
at least out here, seed money could probably be made available. The biggest
problem is ongoing support for overhead. Some friends of mine had talked
about a number of ways to help support such a venture: And the list goes on. I think Sam said it best though
when he said it takes
vision and persistance! It goes without saying that a number of dedicated
people with the appropriate time and energy to get it started would be
required. Starting life as a 501C3 corp sounds like a good start. Another
way that can help ease getting money is to ensure that education is involved
for kids; classes, demonstrations, etc.
I was thinking that the important part of all this is just to get
SOMETHING started. Don't worry about all the costs of going all out to
create a computer museum type organization. Just start out with what you
can to begin with. Even if that means a garage party every month among
local collectors then that's a good start. From there, people will get
interested, more people will show up each month, momentum will develop and
eventually, when it makes sense to do so, the effort can move to the next
level and then continue to grow from there.
Oaks grow from acorns. ;)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
9:33 p.m.
On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I was thinking that the important part of all this is
just to get
SOMETHING started. Don't worry about all the costs of going all out to
create a computer museum type organization. Just start out with what you
can to begin with. Even if that means a garage party every month among
local collectors then that's a good start. From there, people will get
Oaks grow from acorns. ;)
So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented 'open house' (my
house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern
California. If anyone is interested, let me know. I have four
working systems right now, and a big Pr1me to get going. I live in
Malibu and several Listmembers have already been here on Parts
Missions.
We can poke, hack, play, watch the magic smoke billow out of
things, trade stuff.... anyone interested?
After all, Apple, Televideo, and Hewlett-Packard started in
garages, and mine is full of dormant computers. (The working stuff
is inside... hehehe)
Cheers
John
9:38 p.m.
On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, John Lawson wrote:
So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented
'open house' (my
house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern
California. If anyone is interested, let me know. I have four
working systems right now, and a big Pr1me to get going. I live in
Malibu and several Listmembers have already been here on Parts
Missions.
We can poke, hack, play, watch the magic smoke billow out of
things, trade stuff.... anyone interested?
I certainly am. I'm hopefully going to make it down to April's TRW swap,
so I'll add your garage party to my itinerary.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
24 Mar
24 Mar
8:58 a.m.
John Lawson wrote:
So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented
'open house' (my
house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern
California. If anyone is interested, let me know.
Well, geez! You rotten &*$%! :-)
I thought I could exercise restraint and not drive down there
for the swap meet. But if you're going to pull a stunt like this...
Sounds like fun! When is the swap meet? Until now I've been deliberately
avoiding learning the details.
10:18 a.m.
Eric Smith wrote:
John Lawson wrote:
Well, that is John for you; always instigating :).
So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented
'open house' (my
house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern
California. If anyone is interested, let me know.
Well, geez! You rotten &*$%! :-)
I thought I could exercise restraint and not drive down there
for the swap meet. But if you're going to pull a stunt like this...
Sounds like fun! When is the swap meet? Until now I've been deliberately
avoiding learning the details.
TRW is ALWAYS the last Saturday of the month, rain or shine, Christmas, or
whatever from 7:00am - 11:00am (but a lot of the bargains get snapped up
while the sellers are still waiting to be let in.) It really is a lot of
fun. I have had the pleasure of meeting several people from the list down
there ... Hmmm, come to think of it, that is how I met John (through this
list.)
26 Mar
26 Mar
1:34 a.m.
New subject: SoCal events
John Lawson wrote:
Just to add to the soup, TRW is near LAX on Saturday, ACP is in Santa Ana
on Sunday (although it is more oriented on usefull computers not old iron,
all sorts of "things" do pop up).
So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented
'open house' (my
house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern
California. If anyone is interested, let me know.
Well, geez! You rotten &*$%! :-)
I thought I could exercise restraint and not drive down there
for the swap meet. But if you're going to pull a stunt like this...
Sounds like fun! When is the swap meet? Until now I've been deliberately
avoiding learning the details. 
24 Mar
24 Mar
3:26 a.m.
At 11:11 PM 3/23/99 -0800, you wrote:
I have done some checking into financing such a venture and it appears that,
at least out here, seed money could probably be made available. The biggest
problem is ongoing support for overhead. Some friends of mine had talked
about a number of ways to help support such a venture:
I think it would work in Silicon Valley or Seattle. The gift shop
could sell all manner of techie trinkets, perhaps handmade by the
volunteers from old interesting chips - but that seems in opposition
to preservationist efforts. Or you could periodically restore a
particular system to working, near-mint condition, and sell it on Ebay.
The street finds its uses for things! Media conversion and rescue
may be a very profitable sideline, too.
What you need is a benefactor. Paul Allen comes to mind - he's
funding a few engineers for his PDP recreation, isn't he?
- John
9:04 a.m.
John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
I think it would work in Silicon Valley or Seattle.
The gift shop
could sell all manner of techie trinkets, perhaps handmade by the
volunteers from old interesting chips
Yeah! Maybe we could find a working PDP-6 (out of only 23 that were made),
pull out all the modules, and sell them in the gift shop for a few dollars
each.
Don't laugh. It's been done. :-(
11:52 a.m.
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jpl15＠netcom.com -
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mbg＠world.std.com -
mikeford＠netwiz.net