30 Apr
2015
30 Apr
'15
8:06 a.m.
From: Jorg Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it.
So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA code (new version uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
Can someone with a M9301-YA please verify for me that location 165450
contains 0770? I think that perhaps that is wrong, because the code makes no
sense if that's correct - maybe a bit has been dropped, or something?
And if anyone has a good M9301-YB, I would appreciate a dump. (I do have one,
but don't - yet - have a running UNIBUS -11 to plug it into.)
From: Don North
I've had two DL11-W in my 11/34A BA11-K box for
years and have never
had an LTC issue. I suppose if you had a a larger number (say four or
more) you might possibly see an LTC issue
Hey, all I know is what's in the manual (which Josh posted). :-)
I'd forgotten there was a jumper you could pull - I tend not to like to do
things like that as it makes the cards non-pull-and-plug interchangeable. Hence
my suggestion to 'just use an M7800'.
Noel
30 Apr
30 Apr
9:55 a.m.
On 2015-04-30 17:06, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I thought I had seen the sources of the bootstrap code in some document.
Did I just imagine that?
I hope you also are aware that both the M9301 and the M9312 have
different boot roms for some machines. I know that the 11/70 use
different roms with other tests than other PDP-11s, and I seem to
remember that one or two others do as well. (The 11/60 keeps popping up
in my brain...)
From: Jorg
Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it. So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA code
(new version uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
The per-device code are in separate PROMs that are used in both the 9301
and 9312. Those are the ones with the device code as constants in the
beginning of memory space for the PROM, by the way. (I seem to remember
someone mentioning this in the past.)
Johnny
12:18 p.m.
On 4/30/2015 9:55 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2015-04-30 17:06, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I thought I had seen the sources of the bootstrap code in some document. Did I
just imagine that?
I hope you also are aware that both the M9301 and the M9312 have different
boot roms for some machines. I know that the 11/70 use different roms with
other tests than other PDP-11s, and I seem to remember that one or two others
do as well. (The 11/60 keeps popping up in my brain...)
The M9312 device boot proms are totally different format and structure than the
M9301 proms. Not interchangeable.
The M9301 has four 4b wide proms configured as a 512x16 and the console and
device boot code all live in this address space.
The M9312 (and the 11/44 also) have one 4b console PROM, and four slots for 4b
wide device boot PROMs. Each of the PROMs are nibble accessed to build a 16b
word from four 4b nibbles. The PROMs are all independent of one another.
The 11/44 module has its own console boot code PROM, but it uses the standard
M9312 device boot PROMs.
For the M9312, there are two console PROM variations, one for the 11/04/34/etc
class machines, and one for the 11/60/70.
Don
From:
Jorg Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it. So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA
code (new version uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
The per-device code are in separate PROMs that are used in both the 9301 and
9312. Those are the ones with the device code as constants in the beginning of
memory space for the PROM, by the way. (I seem to remember someone mentioning
this in the past.)
Johnny
5:26 p.m.
On 2015-04-30 21:18, Don North wrote:
On 4/30/2015 9:55 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hm.. I could have sworn they were the same. Oh well. Figures. :-)
The per-device code are in separate PROMs that
are used in both the
9301 and 9312. Those are the ones with the device code as constants in
the beginning of memory space for the PROM, by the way. (I seem to
remember someone mentioning this in the past.)
Johnny
The M9312 device boot proms are totally different format and structure
than the M9301 proms. Not interchangeable. The M9301 has four 4b wide proms configured as a
512x16 and the console
and device boot code all live in this address space.
That is also true of the M9301.
The M9312 (and the 11/44 also) have one 4b console
PROM, and four slots
for 4b wide device boot PROMs. Each of the PROMs are nibble accessed to
build a 16b word from four 4b nibbles. The PROMs are all independent of
one another.
Yes. And this is more or less also how it works on the M9301. However,
it seems that DEC didn't actually put difference devices in their own
roms for the M9301, but treated the whole ROM memory as a big chunk with
a bunch of different devices bootstraps in there.
I thought I remembered moving boot roms from an M9301 to an M9312, but
that must be my memory playing tricks with me then.
The 11/44 module has its own console boot code PROM,
but it uses the
standard M9312 device boot PROMs.
Yes. As do the 11/84 and 11/94, which can take those boot roms in the
Unibus adapter.
For the M9312, there are two console PROM variations,
one for the
11/04/34/etc class machines, and one for the 11/60/70.
Right.
Johnny
8:15 p.m.
I recall that the M9301 boots the RX01 but not the RX02, and the M9312
boots both.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-04-30 21:18, Don North wrote:
On 4/30/2015 9:55 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hm.. I could have sworn they were the same. Oh well. Figures. :-)
The M9301 has four 4b wide proms configured as a 512x16 and the console
The per-device code are in separate PROMs that
are used in both the
9301 and 9312. Those are the ones with the device code as constants in
the beginning of memory space for the PROM, by the way. (I seem to
remember someone mentioning this in the past.)
Johnny
The M9312 device boot proms are totally different format and structure
than the M9301 proms. Not interchangeable.
and device boot code all live in this address
space.
That is also true of the M9301.
The M9312 (and the 11/44 also) have one 4b console PROM, and four slots
for 4b wide device boot PROMs. Each of the PROMs
are nibble accessed to
build a 16b word from four 4b nibbles. The PROMs are all independent of
one another.
Yes. And this is more or less also how it works on the M9301. However, it
seems that DEC didn't actually put difference devices in their own roms for
the M9301, but treated the whole ROM memory as a big chunk with a bunch of
different devices bootstraps in there.
I thought I remembered moving boot roms from an M9301 to an M9312, but
that must be my memory playing tricks with me then.
The 11/44 module has its own console boot code PROM, but it uses the
standard M9312 device boot PROMs.
Yes. As do the 11/84 and 11/94, which can take those boot roms in the
Unibus adapter.
For the M9312, there are two console PROM variations, one for the
11/04/34/etc class machines, and one for the
11/60/70.
Right.
Johnny
9:31 p.m.
Hm.. I could have sworn they were the same. Oh well.
Figures. :-)
It's been many years since I looked at the printsets, but I thought the M9301
had 4 off 4-bit wide PROMs that were read out together to make a 16 bit
word, and that therefore all 4 PROMs have to be present. The M9312 uses
hardware to read a 16 bit word out of 4 locations in a single 4 bit wide PROM,
so the 4 PROMs on that card are independant of each other, each normally
contains the bootstrap for a particular device.
-tony
The M9301 has four 4b wide proms configured as a
512x16 and the console
and device boot code all live in this address space.
That is also true of the M9301.
The M9312 (and the 11/44 also) have one 4b
console PROM, and four slots
for 4b wide device boot PROMs. Each of the PROMs are nibble accessed to
build a 16b word from four 4b nibbles. The PROMs are all independent of
one another.
Yes. And this is more or less also how it works on the M9301. However,
it seems that DEC didn't actually put difference devices in their own
roms for the M9301, but treated the whole ROM memory as a big chunk with
a bunch of different devices bootstraps in there. 
1:05 p.m.
Noel,
Maybe you know about it, but here is the commented source code of all
M9312 bootloaders. I found it on www.ak6dn.com 5 years ago, but the page
seems dead now.
Very likely the actual PDP-11 code is identical to M9301, but the
organization of the bootloaders inside the ROMs is different:
M9312 has a modular structure, because ROMs can be changed
independently. M9301 has a central directory.
Hope this helps,
Joerg
Am 30.04.2015 um 17:06 schrieb Noel Chiappa:
From: Jorg
Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it.
So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA code (new version uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
Can someone with a M9301-YA please verify for me that location 165450
contains 0770? I think that perhaps that is wrong, because the code makes no
sense if that's correct - maybe a bit has been dropped, or something?
And if anyone has a good M9301-YB, I would appreciate a dump. (I do have one,
but don't - yet - have a running UNIBUS -11 to plug it into.)
From: Don North
I've had two DL11-W in my 11/34A BA11-K box
for years and have never
had an LTC issue. I suppose if you had a a larger number (say four or
more) you might possibly see an LTC issue
Hey, all I know is what's in the manual (which Josh posted). :-)
I'd forgotten there was a jumper you could pull - I tend not to like to do
things like that as it makes the cards non-pull-and-plug interchangeable. Hence
my suggestion to 'just use an M7800'.
Noel
1 May
1 May
1:12 p.m.
On 4/30/2015 1:05 PM, J?rg Hoppe wrote:
Noel,
Maybe you know about it, but here is the commented source code of all M9312
bootloaders. I found it on www.ak6dn.com 5 years ago, but the page seems dead
now.
Not dead at all. www.ak6dn.com forwards to: http://ak6dn.dyndns.org/
The more direct link to the PDP-11 related stuff for TU58EM, M9312, and 2.11BSD
is: http://ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/
Don
Very likely the actual PDP-11 code is identical to M9301, but the organization
of the bootloaders inside the ROMs is different:
M9312 has a modular structure, because ROMs can be changed independently.
M9301 has a central directory.
Hope this helps,
Joerg
Am 30.04.2015 um 17:06 schrieb Noel Chiappa:
From:
Jorg Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it.
So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA code (new version uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
Can someone with a M9301-YA please verify for me that location 165450
contains 0770? I think that perhaps that is wrong, because the code makes no
sense if that's correct - maybe a bit has been dropped, or something?
And if anyone has a good M9301-YB, I would appreciate a dump. (I do have one,
but don't - yet - have a running UNIBUS -11 to plug it into.)
From: Don North
I've had two DL11-W in my 11/34A BA11-K box
for years and have never
had an LTC issue. I suppose if you had a a larger number (say four or
more) you might possibly see an LTC issue
Hey, all I know is what's in the manual (which Josh posted). :-)
I'd forgotten there was a jumper you could pull - I tend not to like to do
things like that as it makes the cards non-pull-and-plug interchangeable. Hence
my suggestion to 'just use an M7800'.
Noel
1:27 p.m.
Am 01.05.2015 um 22:12 schrieb Don North:
On 4/30/2015 1:05 PM, J?rg Hoppe wrote:
Don,
There's something wrong: Since months I get the message
"Forbidden - You don't have permission to access /PDP-11/ on this server. "
when opening your URL.
Joerg
Noel,
Maybe you know about it, but here is the commented source code of all
M9312 bootloaders. I found it on www.ak6dn.com 5 years ago, but the
page seems dead now.
Not dead at all. www.ak6dn.com forwards to: http://ak6dn.dyndns.org/
The more direct link to the PDP-11 related stuff for TU58EM, M9312, and
2.11BSD is: http://ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/
Don
Very likely the actual PDP-11 code is identical to M9301, but the
organization of the bootloaders inside the ROMs is different:
M9312 has a modular structure, because ROMs can be changed
independently. M9301 has a central directory.
Hope this helps,
Joerg
Am 30.04.2015 um 17:06 schrieb Noel Chiappa:
From:
Jorg Hoppe
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/M9301-YA.mac
Thanks for that effort!
Eh, de nada. Interesting and educational.
The M9312 code should be similar, at least it may
expose some
ideas
Some parts of it (e.g. the CPU diagnostic) are mostly identical (and the
comments there, particularly on the single-op register instructions, are
useful to total understanding of that code in the M9301); but alas, I
had
already done that part of the M9301 (at least, at a surface level)!
Much of the M9312 (including the functionality of most of what I had
yet to
read in the M9301) was quite different. I did manage to get the 'print
number' code out of it, but that was pretty much it.
So I've done a lot of the remaining M9301-YA code (new version
uploaded to
location above); not the per-device code, I'll probably blow that
off, but
other than that, only a few tiny sections remain to be understood.
Can someone with a M9301-YA please verify for me that location 165450
contains 0770? I think that perhaps that is wrong, because the code
makes no
sense if that's correct - maybe a bit has been dropped, or something?
And if anyone has a good M9301-YB, I would appreciate a dump. (I do
have one,
but don't - yet - have a running UNIBUS -11 to plug it into.)
From: Don North
I've had two DL11-W in my 11/34A BA11-K box
for years and have
never
had an LTC issue. I suppose if you had a a larger
number (say
four or
more) you might possibly see an LTC issue
Hey, all I know is what's in the manual (which Josh posted). :-)
I'd forgotten there was a jumper you could pull - I tend not to like
to do
things like that as it makes the cards non-pull-and-plug
interchangeable. Hence
my suggestion to 'just use an M7800'.
Noel
3290
days inactive
3291
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
j_hoppe＠t-online.de -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
north＠alum.mit.edu -
useddec＠gmail.com