20 Feb
2001
20 Feb
'01
3:40 a.m.
1. You have ever sent E-mail to someone sitting next to you.
2. You have ever modified a Windows reg file, ini file, or Linux init
script.
3. You would sell your Grandmother for more bandwidth.
4. You get up at 3 A.M. to go to the bathroom and stop to check your E-mail
on your way back to bed.
5. You start tilting your head sideways to smile.
6. You've entered a DSL or Cable Modem contest so many times you get e-mail
saying "Forget it, Mike you are not going to win, just go buy the modem".
7. You know what the DSL or Cable Modems are and how they work.
8. You have ever dozed off while at the computer.
9. You have ever E-mailed yourself.
10. The tech support folks at your ISP call YOU for the tough ones.
11. You write and debug Windows applications on you Palm.
12. You have more than one version of an operating system, or more than one
operating system on your machine.
13. You have ever submitted a patch to LinuxKernal.org.
14. You have ever chatted with someone while talking to him or her on the
phone.
15. You are surprised that there are other real foods besides pizza.
16. You have invested in a coffee plantation.
17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's.
18. You had no Idea that music came on CD's.
20 Feb
20 Feb
12:35 p.m.
Joe skrev:
> 1. You have ever sent E-mail to someone sitting
next to you.
Naturally, we were telnetted into the same BBS.
> 2. You have ever modified a Windows reg file, ini
file, or Linux init
>script.
Can't say I have, actually. I did edit rc.conf in NetBSD a few hours ago,
though, but I suppose that isn't as geeky as editing the Windows registry.
> 3. You would sell your Grandmother for more
bandwidth.
Since I have two, yes.
> 4. You get up at 3 A.M. to go to the bathroom and
stop to check your E-mail
>on your way back to bed.
It's past three right now.
> 7. You know what the DSL or Cable Modems are and
how they work.
But I don't own the buggers. That's justice to you.
> 8. You have ever dozed off while at the computer.
Yes. =)
> 9. You have ever E-mailed yourself.
Great file transfer method.
>11. You write and debug Windows applications on you
Palm.
Never would. I'm so lame.
>12. You have more than one version of an operating
system, or more than one
>operating system on your machine.
I usually would, but I've found it's easier just to get another computer.
>17. You have more computer CD's than music
CD's.
Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM.
>18. You had no Idea that music came on CD's.
I've heard of it, but the playback in my CD-ROM is worthless.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless.
2:13 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:35:01AM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote:
I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think
I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that.
On the other hand, have you seen:
http://www.vinylvideo.com/ :)
.../Nemo
>17. You have more computer CD's than music
CD's.
Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM.
2:46 p.m.
nemo skrev:
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:35:01AM +0100, Iggy Drougge
wrote:
>
> >>17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's.
>
> Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM.
I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity
of an LP once - I
think I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like
that.
Actually, I once saw an ad for a UK magazine which had a multi-format
flexidisc insteqad of a cover tape. Why not?
On the other hand, have you seen:
http://www.vinylvideo.com/ :)
Why, that is absolutely lovely! There was a similar contraption which recorded
on standard cassette tape a couple of years ago. Apparently, it was a popular
effect in rock videos.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese.
--- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere
5:28 p.m.
I actually
worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I
think I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like
that.
Actually, I once saw an ad for a UK magazine which had a multi-format
flexidisc insteqad of a cover tape. Why not?
21 Feb
21 Feb
12:20 a.m.
At 05:46 AM 2/21/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote:
Why, that is absolutely lovely! There was a similar
contraption which recorded
on standard cassette tape a couple of years ago. Apparently, it was a popular
effect in rock videos.
eBay says: PXL 2000 Pixelvision camera by Fisher Price goes for
$200-$400 each these days.
- John
6:19 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:25:41PM -0800, Gene Buckle wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention I'd forgotten that I have no modern idea? :)
OK, let's work this through, and forgive me any bad assumptions, incorrect
foundation information, or faulty analysis ;)
Because vinyls are fundamentally an audio media[1], we need an
audio->digital conversion system. To use modems as a base - v.42
I think is the 33.6k standard?33600bps = 4.2KB/s. This works out to
252KB/minute. What is the audio length of a vinyl? I'm not sure, but if
we make a nice round 60 minute, then we're looking at about 15meg.
Now, that's not the end of the story. v.42 is designed for modems -
duplex. LProms would be a read-only system. Also, the figure of 33300bps
is based on a modem audio resolution of 2400baud. I don't know the audio
resolution of an LP, but if I had to guess, I'd put the figure as higher
than 2400. So we're increasing capacity already. In a similar vein,
you could run the LP at 15rpm, rather than the normal 33rpm, to reduce
the resolution, while increasing the length. I'm sure there would be an
ideal somewhere between those two tradeoffs :)
Next up, we look at the modulation/demodulation to use. We'll want a
compression that takes best advantage of the medium. (I suspect v.42 is
not it!). Lastly, LP's are stereo - so that either immediately doubles
our capacity (assuming L and R can be kept 100% independant. If they can't
be guaranteed to be kept seperate, then I'm sure capacity could still be
increased by using L and R as checksums against each other or something ;)
Problems with LProms are quality of reading - you run a very real risk
of bitrot if your needle is of poor quality. Also, you'll need some
way to sync the end of sideA with the start of sideB - there is some
data loss there. (this could probably be kept to a minimum by using the
leadin/leadout areas :)
So, did I have an answer in all that? I'm pretty sure you'd get 15meg on
a vinyl easily, and could quadruple that figure with a bit of effort :)
.../Nemo
[1] If digital data can be recorded directly to vinyl, and more importantly,
read from the vinyl, then this entire analysis is meaningless :)
I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think
I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that.
...so what's the capacity? :) 
21 Feb
21 Feb
5:07 a.m.
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 nemo(a)net.house.cx wrote:
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:25:41PM -0800, Gene Buckle
wrote:
Well... while not quite digital, a classis example of LP as data
transport is one of Tomita's albums (can't recall which one at this
precise moment) which has a message embedded in one of the tracks.
All one needs to extract it is a Tarbell S-100 Cassette Interface and the
appropriate cables. <G>
I did it some many years back. Don't recall the message content but it
was amusing. Still have the album... and the board... Hmmm...
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original
'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated.
>
> I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think
> I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that.
[1] If digital data can be recorded directly to vinyl, and more importantly,
read from the vinyl, then this entire analysis is meaningless :) 
6:25 a.m.
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
Well... while not quite digital, a classis example of
LP as data
transport is one of Tomita's albums (can't recall which one at this
precise moment) which has a message embedded in one of the tracks.
All one needs to extract it is a Tarbell S-100 Cassette Interface and the
appropriate cables. <G>
I did it some many years back. Don't recall the message content but it
was amusing. Still have the album... and the board... Hmmm...
Sounds like the makings of one very cool VCF 5.0 presentation, Jimbo!
:)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
2:27 p.m.
I have wanted to know what that message was from the day I
bought the album!! Never had a Tarbell interface, never knew
anybody with one.
If you do it again, please post it here!
Remember how he described the "proper" speaker setup for
listening to the lp? Basically, it was quad plus one directly
overhead in pyramid format.....
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
Paul Braun WD9GCO
Cygnus Productions
nerdware_nospam(a)laidbak.com
"A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of
bricks tied to its head."
Well... while not quite digital, a classis
example of LP as data
transport is one of Tomita's albums (can't recall which one at this
precise moment) which has a message embedded in one of the tracks.
All one needs to extract it is a Tarbell S-100 Cassette Interface
and the appropriate cables. <G>
I did it some many years back. Don't recall the message content but
it was amusing. Still have the album... and the board... Hmmm...
Sounds like the makings of one very cool VCF 5.0 presentation, Jimbo!
:)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
4:43 a.m.
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11 comments
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participants (9)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
foo＠siconic.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
nemo＠net.house.cx -
nerdware＠laidbak.com -
optimus＠canit.se -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net