21 Mar
2000
21 Mar
'00
8:09 a.m.
Does anyone have any practical advice concerning this, something that
might save me a little time/frustration? I'm playing around with some
parts to try to learn more about how the system works, and here's what
I've got:
22bit qbus backplane
11/73 cpu
1 meg ram
various device interface cards (Dilog SQ706A, RQDX3, Emulex TC03, RXV21
clone)
I'd like to be able to set up the simplest system possible and try to
toggle in a bootstrap. I've played with the ones on metalab (RX01, MSCP)
without much real success so far. Trying to boot from the RX01's using the
bootstrap code on metalab results in the drive access light coming on, but
nothing else happening. Sending a break stops at 1044 every time, the
contents of that register is 1776. Trying to boot from the Dilog scsi
device #0 (should be DU0, right?) just hangs (again using the MSCP
bootstrap on metalab). The MSCP bootstrap is well-commented, so I can see
what's going on there...a little hint or push may be all I need to be able
to modify it to work for me. The RX01 bootstrap is not commented at all,
unfortunately.
I know the RXV21 clone is working OK, since I can boot from it with the
bootstrap roms on my multifunction card...
Thanks,
Aaron
21 Mar
21 Mar
8:20 a.m.
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
Does anyone have any practical advice concerning this, something that
might save me a little time/frustration? I'm playing around with some
parts to try to learn more about how the system works, and here's what
I've got:
22bit qbus backplane
11/73 cpu
1 meg ram
various device interface cards (Dilog SQ706A, RQDX3, Emulex TC03, RXV21
clone)
Sorry, should have also mentioned a DLVJ1 as the SLU on port 3.
9:48 a.m.
might save me a little time/frustration? I'm
playing around with some
parts to try to learn more about how the system works, and here's what
I've got:
22bit qbus backplane
11/73 cpu
1 meg ram
various device interface cards (Dilog SQ706A, RQDX3, Emulex TC03, RXV21
clone)
I'd like to be able to set up the simplest system possible and try to
toggle in a bootstrap. I've played with the ones on metalab (RX01, MSCP)
It sounds like you've got about as messed up a setup there as I've got. I'm
guessing you have the dual height, and not the quad height /73 CPU board.
You mention problems with booting a SCSI disk off the Dilog controller.
Have you verified tha the you don't have boards sitting at the same CSR?
For that matter why do you have the RQDX3 in the system (in my case I use it
for the RX50's).
Do you have any 3rd party disk controllers with a bootstrap built in?
That's how I boot my system.
Just to give you an idea of how messed up my system is, I've got a Viking
SCSI, WQESD/04, and a RQDX3. The Viking has my disks and tape, the RQDX3
the floppy, and alll the WQESD/04 is currently doing is booting the system!
In fact by default the WQESD boots DU0: on the Viking board.
A good goal for you would be to get everything working under RT-11. That's
a great way to learn.
BTW, if you don't have a bootable 3rd party controller, or the DEC board
with the boot ROMs, I hope you've figured out how to send the bootstrap
over a serial line from a PC (I never did).
Zane
11:27 a.m.
I should have been a little more specific with my description. I have the
peripheral boards sitting around me and am just playing with one at a time
for fun. I do have a bootable system already, but I'm just playing with
them for the fun/experience...
I double checked to make sure that they had unique CSR
assignments...besides the SLU, will the system expect any of the
peripherals to have standard addresses/vectors?
I'll try to push the bootstrap via serial tonight, though I'm using a WYSE
60 and it's pretty easy to type it out.
Side note: does anyone know how to send a plain LF with a WYSE 60, without
changing the personality to a different terminal? My setup cycles through
like this for assigning the Enter key: CR...CRLF...CR...TAB...I got around
it last night by switching personalities to one of the DG modes.
Thanks,
Aaron
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
might save me
a little time/frustration? I'm playing around with some
parts to try to learn more about how the system works, and here's what
I've got:
22bit qbus backplane
11/73 cpu
1 meg ram
various device interface cards (Dilog SQ706A, RQDX3, Emulex TC03, RXV21
clone)
I'd like to be able to set up the simplest system possible and try to
toggle in a bootstrap. I've played with the ones on metalab (RX01, MSCP)
It sounds like you've got about as messed up a setup there as I've got. I'm
guessing you have the dual height, and not the quad height /73 CPU board.
You mention problems with booting a SCSI disk off the Dilog controller.
Have you verified tha the you don't have boards sitting at the same CSR?
For that matter why do you have the RQDX3 in the system (in my case I use it
for the RX50's).
Do you have any 3rd party disk controllers with a bootstrap built in?
That's how I boot my system.
Just to give you an idea of how messed up my system is, I've got a Viking
SCSI, WQESD/04, and a RQDX3. The Viking has my disks and tape, the RQDX3
the floppy, and alll the WQESD/04 is currently doing is booting the system!
In fact by default the WQESD boots DU0: on the Viking board.
A good goal for you would be to get everything working under RT-11. That's
a great way to learn.
BTW, if you don't have a bootable 3rd party controller, or the DEC board
with the boot ROMs, I hope you've figured out how to send the bootstrap
over a serial line from a PC (I never did).
Zane
12:18 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 02:27:16PM -0800, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
Side note: does anyone know how to send a plain LF
with a WYSE 60, without
changing the personality to a different terminal? My setup cycles through
like this for assigning the Enter key: CR...CRLF...CR...TAB...I got around
it last night by switching personalities to one of the DG modes.
TAB?!
Well, maybe this is too obvious, but you've tried CTRL/J right?
John Wilson
D Bit
2:08 p.m.
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4:01 p.m.
Just tried ctrl-J...perfect. Thanks guys...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
TAB?!
Well, maybe this is too obvious, but you've tried CTRL/J right?
Unless this is a _very_ strange terminal, ctrl-J is linefeed. Tab would
be ctrl-I.
Most terminals will send Esc if you type ctrl-[, which is useful on some
VT series units without a real escape key...
-tony
6:53 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 01:08:48AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
Sure, I wasn't saying TAB is ^J, I was expressing disbelief that the Wyse
terminal has a setting to make the RETURN key generate TAB. That's twisted!
TAB?!
Well, maybe this is too obvious, but you've tried CTRL/J right?
Unless this is a _very_ strange terminal, ctrl-J is linefeed. Tab would
be ctrl-I. Most terminals will send Esc if you type ctrl-[, which
is useful on some
VT series units without a real escape key...
Yeah, ^[ comes in handy, since on current PC keyboards the real Esc key is
a long way from the home keys. I wish there were a similar easy way to get
the \ character, since it seems no two keyboards have that in the same place.
John Wilson
D Bit
7:28 p.m.
New subject: Terminal Keyboards (was Re: Toggling in PDP-11 Bootstraps...)
On Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 01:08:48AM +0000, Tony Duell
wrote:
Sure, I wasn't saying TAB is ^J, I was expressing disbelief that the Wyse
terminal has a setting to make the RETURN key generate TAB. That's >twisted!
Wyse terminals are twisted!!!
TAB?!
Well, maybe this is too obvious, but you've tried CTRL/J right?
Unless this is a _very_ strange terminal, ctrl-J is linefeed. Tab would
be ctrl-I. Most terminals
will send Esc if you type ctrl-[, which is useful on some
VT series units without a real escape key...
Yeah, ^[ comes in handy, since on current PC keyboards the real Esc key is
a long way from the home keys. I wish there were a similar easy way to get
the \ character, since it seems no two keyboards have that in the same >place.
12:33 p.m.
I should have been a little more specific with my
description. I have the
peripheral boards sitting around me and am just playing with one at a time
for fun. I do have a bootable system already, but I'm just playing with
them for the fun/experience...
OK, I'm still a little confused. Do you have Boot ROMs in the system, or
even when it's put together in the 'bootable order', do you still have to
type in the bootstrap?
I double checked to make sure that they had unique
CSR
assignments...besides the SLU, will the system expect any of the
peripherals to have standard addresses/vectors?
The bootstrap expects to be seeing the controller at a specific address.
I believe a MSCP disk should be at 1772150 for the first controller (I'm not
at home, so this is from memory, and my memory stinks).
I'll try to push the bootstrap via serial tonight,
though I'm using a WYSE
60 and it's pretty easy to type it out.
I've typed the TMSCP bootstrap a few to many times for my taste. Though now
I have a board in the system that included TMSCP support. This is the only
reason I'd use a PC as a console.
Side note: does anyone know how to send a plain LF
with a WYSE 60, without
changing the personality to a different terminal? My setup cycles through
like this for assigning the Enter key: CR...CRLF...CR...TAB...I got around
it last night by switching personalities to one of the DG modes.
I'm afraid I don't. My personal recommendation is get a DEC terminal, but
then I've got anywhere from a dislike to downright hatred for non-DEC
terminals.
Zane
2:20 p.m.
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
No, with the bootroms installed I can boot from the * prompt (ex: * DY
[enter]. I was just playing with it with cpu/mem/slu/peripheral cards
only.
I should have
been a little more specific with my description. I have the
peripheral boards sitting around me and am just playing with one at a time
for fun. I do have a bootable system already, but I'm just playing with
them for the fun/experience...
OK, I'm still a little confused. Do you have Boot ROMs in the system,
or even when it's put together in the 'bootable order', do you still
have to type in the bootstrap? > I double checked to make sure that
they had unique CSR > assignments...besides the SLU, will the system
expect any of the > peripherals to have standard addresses/vectors?
The bootstrap expects to be seeing the controller at a specific address.
I believe a MSCP disk should be at 1772150 for the first controller (I'm not
at home, so this is from memory, and my memory stinks).
I'll check at home; I think I have the adress for the first MSCP
controller somewhere myself...let me check that one when I get home.
I'll try to push the bootstrap via serial
tonight, though I'm using a WYSE
60 and it's pretty easy to type it out.
I've typed the TMSCP bootstrap a few to many times for my taste. Though now
I have a board in the system that included TMSCP support. This is the only
reason I'd use a PC as a console. Side note:
does anyone know how to send a plain LF with a WYSE 60, without
changing the personality to a different terminal? My setup cycles through
like this for assigning the Enter key: CR...CRLF...CR...TAB...I got around
it last night by switching personalities to one of the DG modes.
I'm afraid I don't. My personal recommendation is get a DEC terminal, but
then I've got anywhere from a dislike to downright hatred for non-DEC
terminals.
3:16 p.m.
No, with the bootroms installed I can boot from the *
prompt (ex: * DY
[enter]. I was just playing with it with cpu/mem/slu/peripheral cards
only.
Ah, I understand now. Well, except for why you were running without the
bootroms installed, but whatever makes you happy... :^)
I'll check at home; I think I have the adress for
the first MSCP
controller somewhere myself...let me check that one when I get home.
Here, I've got the info handy. The following is from a WQESD Controller
manual. The board that the manual came with doesn't support MU:, but newer
revisions of the board do.
Device Address
-------------------
Console 17777560
DU: 17772150
DUB: 17760334
DUC: 17760354
DUD: 17760374
DUE: 17760414
DUF: 17760434
MS: 17772520
MSB: 17772524
MSC: 17772530
MSD: 17772534
DL: 17774400
DY: 17777170
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
1:10 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 11:09:58AM -0800, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
I'd like to be able to set up the simplest system
possible and try to
toggle in a bootstrap. I've played with the ones on metalab (RX01, MSCP)
While we're at it, does anybody know how to bootstrap an 11/44 with a RL01 drive
attached to it ?
I'm trying to boot and install RSX11-M 4.5 from RL01 pack.
Sincerely,
Erik.
1:36 p.m.
While we're at it, does anybody know how to
bootstrap an 11/44 with a RL01 drive attached to it ?
I'm trying to boot and install RSX11-M 4.5 from RL01 pack.
Sincerely,
Erik.
It should use the same bootstrap as a RL02 drive I believe. Do you have any
boot ROMs in the /44? I thought that the RL02 ROMs were pretty much
standard.
I suspect you can find a copy of a RL02 bootstrap at the Metalab (Sunsite)
PDP-11 archive.
Zane
2:40 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Howdy All!!!
The list disappeared on me on 15 Jan 00, so I had no idea when the list
switched over (according to the archives, on 27 Jan 00) and since I've been
busier than a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest, I've not had a
chance to research how to get back on the list until now...
Anywho, I had mentioned that I might be getting a VAX... Well, I didn't get
1, or even 2, but 5! That's right, 5! Got 'em just a few days ago, but
haven't had much of a chance to check 'em out... but I do have 2
VAXSstation 3100 M38's... or... at least enough to make 1 working one out
of 'em. There was also a VAXServer (either 3100 or 4000 - at work right
now) and 3 -- get this 3 - of the 8-plane grafix boards & enough memory
boards to give one machine a full 32Meg!
And... I just happen to have a multisync "sync-on-green" Mac-ish monitor
that my pal says should work - and he gave me a cable for them, too!
I just have to hack in a CDRrom and I'll be able to install VMS, because he
gave me all of the media for VMS *and* Ultrix, because the DECServer 5000
(I think... again, I'm at work) is a MIPS box and won't run VMS.... :-) :-)
Lotsa Toyz to have fun with... :-) :-)
Take care and Glad to see y'all again,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
3:24 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Howdy All!!!
The list disappeared on me on 15 Jan 00, so I had no idea when the list
switched over (according to the archives, on 27 Jan 00) and since I've been
busier than a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest, I've not had a
chance to research how to get back on the list until now...
Welcome back!
now) and 3 -- get this 3 - of the 8-plane grafix boards
& enough memory
boards to give one machine a full 32Meg!
A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green! Actually I should finally be getting
one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
I just have to hack in a CDRrom and I'll be able to
install VMS, because he
gave me all of the media for VMS *and* Ultrix, because the DECServer 5000
(I think... again, I'm at work) is a MIPS box and won't run VMS.... :-) :-)
Most cool. BTW, you just need a CD-ROM that has 512-byte blocks. I've got
an external CD-ROM that I got for my Mac Laptop in '95 that works good.
I've also simply connected an internal to an internal SCSI cable and power
on a VS3100/30m long enough to install VMS. I've a feeling OpenVMS 7.2
will rock on the system with 32MB, as it does pretty good on a 16MB system
when you leave out DECwindows.
On the DECserver, I'm actually inclined to recommend NetBSD as it's
doubtful you've got the Y2k version of Ultrix. Beware a standard install
of NetBSD seems to want well over 500MB of HD space.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green! Actually I
should finally be
getting
one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
Should I mention that my Vax 6000-430 has 256Mb?
:^)
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
5:35 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
From: "Zane H. Healy"
<healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
Yeah, well my VAX 6000-530 has twice that- 512 MB! Top that! :-)
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com
A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green!
Actually I should finally be
getting
one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
Should I mention that my Vax 6000-430 has 256Mb?
7:12 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard W. Schauer" <rws(a)enteract.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
ROFL. I thought I was the only one that kept a pet one of these. Good
on ya!
Where'd you score that one & what's the rest of the setup?
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
> > A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green! Actually I should finally
be
getting
Yeah, well my VAX 6000-530 has twice that- 512 MB! Top that! :-) one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
Should I mention that my Vax 6000-430 has 256Mb?
22 Mar
22 Mar
5:25 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
I got it through someone from this list- it was the subject of the big
VAX vs. 486 flamewar last year. It was at a hospital office. It was shut
off late last year and officially retired in January. Unfortunately, the
disks are still in use on its replacement, so all I picked up was the CPU
(one cabinet, refrigerator-sized). I've been going over it examining it
to see what makes it tick and learning about it (DEC stuff is for whatever
reason sort-of rare around here; I'm not sure if it's all still in service
or if it was unpopular in the first place.) Eventually I'll find disks
for it- I'm a firm believer in the magnet principle. :-)
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com
Yeah, well my
VAX 6000-530 has twice that- 512 MB! Top that! :-)
ROFL. I thought I was the only one that kept a pet one of these. Good
on ya!
Where'd you score that one & what's the rest of the setup?
21 Mar
21 Mar
7:52 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
Good Grief! The most any Alpha on my home cluster has is 112MB and my best
Alpha only has 96MB because the RAM is so blasted expensive! I've found
that a Alpha with 80MB is about the same as a VAX with 16MB, and don't even
consider DECwindows in less than 80MB (and you won't see good performance
till 112MB). The 96MB machine is a 21164/333 feels about like the
21064/225 with 112MB under general workstation use (though running a
processor intensive app would be faster). Now if I could just get another
128MB, a 24-bit graphics card, and 100Mbit Ethernet that 21164 would
scream, BUT it would basically be cheaper to just get a newer/better system
:^(
I've not gone after any of the big VAXen I've had a shot at because they'd
take space away from my PDP's :^) Besides I suspect that much RAM is
overkill for a home VAX :^)
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
From: "Zane H. Healy"
<healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
Yeah, well my VAX 6000-530 has twice that- 512 MB! Top that! :-)
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green!
Actually I should finally be
getting
one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
Should I mention that my Vax 6000-430 has 256Mb? 
22 Mar
22 Mar
2:36 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Good Grief! The most any Alpha on my home cluster has
is 112MB and my best
Alpha only has 96MB because the RAM is so blasted expensive! I've found
that a Alpha with 80MB is about the same as a VAX with 16MB, and don't even
consider DECwindows in less than 80MB (and you won't see good performance
till 112MB). The 96MB machine is a 21164/333 feels about like the
For alpha maybe. I'm used to running decwin on MVII with 9meg! The
largest vax I have (memory wise) is 24 and then 16mb and for VAX/VMS thats
a decent amount of ram unless your doing large matrix math or big
databases.
Allison
5:15 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Good Grief!
The most any Alpha on my home cluster has is 112MB and my best
Alpha only has 96MB because the RAM is so blasted expensive! I've found
that a Alpha with 80MB is about the same as a VAX with 16MB, and don't even
consider DECwindows in less than 80MB (and you won't see good performance
till 112MB). The 96MB machine is a 21164/333 feels about like the
For alpha maybe. I'm used to running decwin on MVII with 9meg! The
largest vax I have (memory wise) is 24 and then 16mb and for VAX/VMS thats
a decent amount of ram unless your doing large matrix math or big
databases.
7:28 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
What version of VMS, and how much other stuff? My MV3
has 16MB with OpenVMS
V7.2, DECnet Phase V, and TCPIP V5, and has plenty of free RAM. I've no
idea how much space DECwindows takes in memory on a VAX. However, a Alpha
with 80MB or 96MB running the same stuff I am on the MV3, and DECwindows is
swapping, with 112MB it isn't normally swapping. What can I say, I like
*all* my programs in RAM all the time.
When I first started running DW it was a MVII with 5mb running VMS4.7
(may old ba23!). During those years I could get later versions easily as
as I was DEC internal. I eventually got as far as VMS5.5 and 5 users
(run VS2000 as DWTs) all in 13mb of ram. Ran ok. The current one runs
quite nicely on the M76 in 16mb using a VT1200. The smallest config I
DW on memorywise was a 730 with 4mb, and one RA80. It was slow but then
no amount of memory was going to help a great amount.
There is no comparisn with Alpha memory sizes and Microvax. It has a lot
to do with basic word size and how memory is used.
Allison
21 Mar
21 Mar
4:56 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words:
Welcome back!
Thanks!
A VAX with more than 16MB, I'm green! Actually I
should finally be getting
one with more than 16MB one of these days soon.
I *think* I've got enough other boards to populate the others with 16Meg,
but I'm not quite sure... My tough parts are hard drives... I've only got
2, an RZ24L & an RZ25. Are there utilities to make a non-DEC hard drive
work in a VAX? I need to put in an order for a couple of SCSI drives
anyway... and I could get a couple 1 or 2 gig drives at the same time.
Most cool. BTW, you just need a CD-ROM that has
512-byte blocks. I've got
an external CD-ROM that I got for my Mac Laptop in '95 that works good.
I've also simply connected an internal to an internal SCSI cable and power
on a VS3100/30m long enough to install VMS. I've a feeling OpenVMS 7.2
will rock on the system with 32MB, as it does pretty good on a 16MB system
when you leave out DECwindows.
Yea, the CDRom has the "Sector" jumper, so I should be GTG there. I
contemplated hooking the CDRom internal, but I wasn't sure how the VMS
install was going to like that once I remove the rom and reinstall the RZ24
(as the secondary), so I have a 12" or so internal-type cable that will
just reach to the CDROM so I can use the external power supply. (I also
have a few AT supplies I could use to power it as well...)
I do want to see what the box will do with DECwindows... are there any good
spreadsheet/presentation apps for that? Erm... this might be a stretch, but
isn't there a Netscape or Mosaic for that too? (I'm not too interested in
turning the box into a 'net appliance, but mainly just to show people --
"Look! I got Nutscrape to run on this!" I co-own an ISP, and I'd bet that
none of the other ISP's could get that working, so it might make a strange
but helpful bragging point - "We support VAXen!")
On the DECserver, I'm actually inclined to
recommend NetBSD as it's
doubtful you've got the Y2k version of Ultrix. Beware a standard install
of NetBSD seems to want well over 500MB of HD space.
I'll be lucky if I have any time before 2001 to tinker with the server... I
have a house to build this year, and what (very) little leisure time I'll
have will prolly be spent puttering with VMS.
I'll post more when I know more - I'm at work (will be for another hour or
so) and all the stuff's at home.
Well, gotta go or I'll *never* get outta here...
Roger "Merch" Merhcberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
7:16 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
I *think* I've got enough other boards to populate
the others with 16Meg,
but I'm not quite sure... My tough parts are hard drives... I've only got
2, an RZ24L & an RZ25. Are there utilities to make a non-DEC hard drive
work in a VAX? I need to put in an order for a couple of SCSI drives
anyway... and I could get a couple 1 or 2 gig drives at the same time.
OpenVMS V7.2 is a lot more forgiving about that than say V5.5, however,
there is no guarentee until you try it. If your best system is a
VAXstation 3100 M38 you're probably limited to 1GB on the *BOOT* disk.
I'm sure this isn't a Truism, but I've *never* had problems with plugging a
SCSI drive from a Mac into a piece of DEC gear.
I do want to see what the box will do with
DECwindows... are there any good
spreadsheet/presentation apps for that? Erm... this might be a stretch, but
There is at least one spreadsheet'ish app available, though I've no idea
how good it is. No idea on the Presentation apps. For Word Processing
there is DECwrite.
isn't there a Netscape or Mosaic for that too?
(I'm not too interested in
turning the box into a 'net appliance, but mainly just to show people --
"Look! I got Nutscrape to run on this!" I co-own an ISP, and I'd bet that
none of the other ISP's could get that working, so it might make a strange
but helpful bragging point - "We support VAXen!")
OK, both run, BUT the current version of Netscape is V3.01 :^( I'm not
about to count Mozilla (besides I don't believe it supports VAX), as I've
tried it on my AlphaStation 500/333 and it had major problems (of course a
friend at work showed me it on Linux and it had major problems). Another
problem with Mozilla is it seems to require more than 8-bit colour.
I've no idea how Netscape or Mosaic run on a VAX though, as none of my
VAXen are running DECwindows, and only one is running TCP/IP. For that
matter I think only one of the Alpha's (the AlphaStation 500/333) is
currently running DECwindows.
On the
DECserver, I'm actually inclined to recommend NetBSD as it's
doubtful you've got the Y2k version of Ultrix. Beware a standard install
of NetBSD seems to want well over 500MB of HD space.
I'll be lucky if I have any time before 2001 to tinker with the server... I
have a house to build this year, and what (very) little leisure time I'll
have will prolly be spent puttering with VMS.
22 Mar
22 Mar
2:33 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
>I *think* I've got enough other boards to
populate the others with 16Meg,
>but I'm not quite sure... My tough parts are hard drives... I've only got
>2, an RZ24L & an RZ25. Are there utilities to make a non-DEC hard drive
That would make a fine VAX, and that enough disk to run fair amount of
stuff under VMS.
work in a VAX?
I need to put in an order for a couple of SCSI drives
anyway... and I could get a couple 1 or 2 gig drives at the same time.
OpenVMS V7.2 is a lot more forgiving about that than say V5.5, however,
there is no guarentee until you try it. If your best system is a
VAXstation 3100 M38 you're probably limited to 1GB on the *BOOT* disk. I do want to
see what the box will do with DECwindows... are there any good
spreadsheet/presentation apps for that? Erm... this might be a stretch, but
There is at least one spreadsheet'ish app available, though I've no idea
how good it is. No idea on the Presentation apps. For Word Processing
there is DECwrite. >isn't there a Netscape or Mosaic for that too?
(I'm not too interested in
>turning the box into a 'net appliance, but mainly just to show people --
>"Look! I got Nutscrape to run on this!" I co-own an ISP, and I'd bet
that
>none of the other ISP's could get that working, so it might make a strange
>but helpful bragging point - "We support VAXen!")
There are several browsers, newreaders and also server software out there
for VMS. I believe Apache too.
Allison
5:22 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
Look at TPU for word processing, it's very
configureable. LSE is even
better. For Spreadsheet there are a few DECcalc being one. There is a
fair amount of DECUS and other free software for VMS out there.
OK, now I'm curious. I can see TPU and LSE for text editing, but word
processing? Or are you then sending the result through TeX, or something
like TeX? Wasn't DECcalc a commercial offering along the lines of DECwrite?
If so, as far as I know it's not available to hobbyists. I'd love to know
about a good spreadsheet available to hobbyists myself!
There are several browsers, newreaders and also server
software out there
for VMS. I believe Apache too.
Good point, Apache is now available, although I gather one VMS there are
better solutions still for a VMS based web server. There is a very nice
newsreader for DECwindows who's name escapes me. Supposidly 'tin' will
compile on VMS, but it looks like it's been *years* since anyone succeeded.
I've gotten it to compile and link, but it won't do anything. If you're like
me and prefer 'elm' for eMail, then give PTmail V4.1.2 a try.
Zane
7:34 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
OK, now I'm curious. I can see TPU and LSE for
text editing, but word
processing? Or are you then sending the result through TeX, or something
You could use tex or RNO, I had a set of scripts that would do the desired
operation. the script language was TECO with many added extensions.
like TeX? Wasn't DECcalc a commercial offering
along the lines of DECwrite?
If so, as far as I know it's not available to hobbyists. I'd love to know
about a good spreadsheet available to hobbyists myself!
Dunno, check decus, check simtel.
Good point, Apache is now available, although I gather
one VMS there are
better solutions still for a VMS based web server. There is a very nice
newsreader for DECwindows who's name escapes me. Supposidly 'tin' will
compile on VMS, but it looks like it's been *years* since anyone succeeded.
I've gotten it to compile and link, but it won't do anything. If you're like
me and prefer 'elm' for eMail, then give PTmail V4.1.2 a try.
Elm eww. I like Vaxmail, I'd rther use that. News reader isn't that
FreeForte or some such?
On the whole it's possible to port any unix app to VMS if the IO is well
behaved. At most you need a shim inbetweeen. The first kermit I'd used
was a unix port, pain to install but worked ok.
Allison
11:52 a.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
like TeX?
Wasn't DECcalc a commercial offering along the lines of DECwrite?
If so, as far as I know it's not available to hobbyists. I'd love to know
about a good spreadsheet available to hobbyists myself!
Dunno, check decus, check simtel. Elm eww. I like Vaxmail, I'd rther use that.
News reader isn't that
FreeForte or some such?
What can I say, elm is what I got started on. I think the Newsreader is
MXRN, it came off the internet solutions for OpenVMS CD-ROM. Isn't
FreeForte a Windows app? I'm still trying to find a decent text based
newsreader for VMS that doesn't puke, I got one running that looked like it
might be OK, but it pukes on the number of newsgroups my ISP carries, before
it ever gets through the alt. hierarchy.
It's wierd, when using VMS I prefer primarily text based apps, while under
UNIX I prefer GUI apps (except 'elm' and 'tin').
Zane
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
> > like TeX? Wasn't DECcalc a commercial
offering along the lines of DECwrite?
> > If so, as far as I know it's not available to hobbyists. I'd love to
know
> > about a good spreadsheet available to hobbyists myself!
>
> Dunno, check decus, check simtel.
Checking DECUS is painful at best, there doesn't
seem to be any kind of an
index, at least not that I've found. I think it was the Freeware CD that I
found something at.
I don't ahve their archice on my system so there is little I can do for
you short of making the inquery for you.
Check simtel?!?!? I remember the old Simtel-20 DOS
archive, but what are
you refering to?
Try FTP://www.SIMTEL.NET
What can I say, elm is what I got started on. I think
the Newsreader is
MXRN, it came off the internet solutions for OpenVMS CD-ROM. Isn't
FreeForte a Windows app? I'm still trying to find a decent text based
it is but they had one similar for vax and decwin.
newsreader for VMS that doesn't puke, I got one
running that looked like it
might be OK, but it pukes on the number of newsgroups my ISP carries, before
it ever gets through the alt. hierarchy.
With the constant changes to the web and the need to use the latest
browser plus have both Nyetscrap and Internetexploder anything for the vax
is likely to puke.
Look at the bright side using a PC to surf the web is ok. Why? Both do
little with lots of flash and real work gets done elsewhere. ;)
It's wierd, when using VMS I prefer primarily text
based apps, while under
UNIX I prefer GUI apps (except 'elm' and 'tin').
Same here. then again I prefer anything that hides unix as it's unlike
everything else I am ultra comfortable with.
Allison
12:46 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
::What can I say, elm is what I got started on. I think the Newsreader is
::MXRN, it came off the internet solutions for OpenVMS CD-ROM. Isn't
::FreeForte a Windows app? I'm still trying to find a decent text based
::newsreader for VMS that doesn't puke, I got one running that looked like it
::might be OK, but it pukes on the number of newsgroups my ISP carries, before
::it ever gets through the alt. hierarchy.
Tried nn? Its threading is a bit odd but it works wonderfully and it's very
fast. I've endlessly patched mine to restrict the groups the newsreader
asks about to certain hierarchies, for AUTHINFO-style NNTP authentication,
and a few other things. nn-7 will support "proper" threading but I kinda
like the threading the way it is.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu
-- "I'd love to go out with you, but my favourite commercial is on TV."
-------
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
::What can I say, elm is what I got started on. I
think the Newsreader is
::MXRN, it came off the internet solutions for OpenVMS CD-ROM. Isn't
::FreeForte a Windows app? I'm still trying to find a decent text based
::newsreader for VMS that doesn't puke, I got one running that looked like it
::might be OK, but it pukes on the number of newsgroups my ISP carries, before
::it ever gets through the alt. hierarchy.
Tried nn? Its threading is a bit odd but it works wonderfully and it's very
fast. I've endlessly patched mine to restrict the groups the newsreader
asks about to certain hierarchies, for AUTHINFO-style NNTP authentication,
and a few other things. nn-7 will support "proper" threading but I kinda
like the threading the way it is.
Is it available on OpenVMS? If so I might have to give it a try, although
I've tried it on UNIX and didn't like it.
Zane
1:45 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
::> Tried nn? Its threading is a bit odd but it works wonderfully and it's very
::> fast. I've endlessly patched mine to restrict the groups the newsreader
::> asks about to certain hierarchies, for AUTHINFO-style NNTP authentication,
::> and a few other things. nn-7 will support "proper" threading but I kinda
::> like the threading the way it is.
::
::Is it available on OpenVMS? If so I might have to give it a try, although
::I've tried it on UNIX and didn't like it.
I'm not sure. I doubt that it would be too weird to not compile on it,
though.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu
-- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------
21 Mar
21 Mar
9:28 p.m.
New subject: Aaaaahhhh... 'Tis Good to be Back!!!
I do want to see what the box will do with
DECwindows... are there any good
spreadsheet/presentation apps for that? Erm... this might be a stretch, but
isn't there a Netscape or Mosaic for that too? (I'm not too interested in
turning the box into a 'net appliance, but mainly just to show people --
"Look! I got Nutscrape to run on this!" I co-own an ISP, and I'd bet that
none of the other ISP's could get that working, so it might make a strange
but helpful bragging point - "We support VAXen!")
Netscape 3.x is shipped with OpenVMS 7.2 as standard browser (earlier
was Mosaic) so both should work.
I do want to see what the box will do with
DECwindows... are there any > good spreadsheet/presentation apps for that?
I suppose there should be VMS version of Xess...
About memeory - I've 24Meg of ram and 7.2 with DECWindows works fine as
for me.
Maciek
8894
days inactive
8895
days old
34 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
af-list＠wfi-inc.com -
allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
blergh＠dds.nl -
ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
macieks＠pzl-okecie.com.pl -
rws＠enteract.com -
wilson＠dbit.dbit.com -
zmerch＠30below.com