11 Jun
2005
11 Jun
'05
8:51 p.m.
Subject: Re: Wild-hair floppy drive question
From: Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:01:12 -0500
To: General at mdrconsult.com, "Discussion at mdrconsult.com":On-Topic and
Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Eric Smith wrote:
Ah, so you wish to use a 3.5" floppy for an Altos that has a 5.25 DSQD?
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka 720k).
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD 5.25".
Allison
Doc asks:
Sorry, no, I meant a 3.5" floppy drive. As soon as Allison replied I
realized the question was ambiguous.
I've found something intersting about the Compaq m/b that hosts my
1.2MB 5.25" disk drive, though.
That board auto-detects all its hardware on every boot. If I boot
with a DSQD disk in that drive, the BIOS auto-updates the settings to
'3.5" 1.44MB Drive".
Which is what prompted my question in the first place. Would a DSHD floppy drive with a DSHD disk in
it
You mean a 96 TPI high-density 5.25" disk and drive (e.g., IBM 1.2M format
that was introduced with the PC/AT)? 
11 Jun
11 Jun
9:11 p.m.
Allison wrote:
>>Doc asks:
>>
>>
>>> Would a DSHD floppy drive with a DSHD disk in it
>
> Sorry, no, I meant a 3.5" floppy drive. As soon as Allison replied I
>realized the question was ambiguous.
Ah, so you wish to use a 3.5" floppy for an Altos
that has a 5.25 DSQD?
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka 720k).
I have a few pounds of DSDD 3.5" media.
What I think I *don't* have is a 3.5" drive that can be jumpered to ID 0.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD 5.25".
That's a possibility too. The drive in the Altos doesn't sound
particularly healthy, so I'm scouting a replacement.
Is there a document explaining the differences between the several
TEAC FD55Gxx drives? I have a bunch of TEAC FD55GFRs, but the "V"
models are really rare around here.
And speaking of floppy things, you remember that set of Kaypro master
disks I got from you? I finally ID'ed them. They're MS-DOS based, for
a Kaypro 16. :) If you have a use for them I don't, and if not I'll
put them up to the list for postage.
Doc
9:31 p.m.
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 PM
Allison wrote:
The easy thing to do is just make a cable with pins 10, 11, & 12 twisted.
This takes the standard controllers DS0 line and drives DS1.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
>>Doc asks:
>>
>>
>>> Would a DSHD floppy drive with a DSHD disk in it
>
> Sorry, no, I meant a 3.5" floppy drive. As soon as Allison replied I
> realized the question was ambiguous.
Ah, so you wish to use a 3.5" floppy for an
Altos that has a 5.25 DSQD?
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka
720k).
I have a few pounds of DSDD 3.5" media.
What I think I *don't* have is a 3.5" drive that can be jumpered to ID
0.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD
5.25".
That's a possibility too. The drive in the Altos doesn't sound
particularly healthy, so I'm scouting a replacement.
Is there a document explaining the differences between the several TEAC
FD55Gxx drives? I have a bunch of TEAC FD55GFRs, but the "V" models are
really rare around here.
And speaking of floppy things, you remember that set of Kaypro master
disks I got from you? I finally ID'ed them. They're MS-DOS based, for a
Kaypro 16. :) If you have a use for them I don't, and if not I'll put
them up to the list for postage.
Doc 
12 Jun
12 Jun
7:31 a.m.
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:11:40 -0500
Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Allison wrote:
replied I
>realized the question was ambiguous.
(waves hand vigorously regarding Kaypro 16 diskettes), though I have
CP/M-86 on that hardware at the moment.
Doc asks:
> Would a DSHD floppy drive with a DSHD disk in it
Sorry, no, I meant a 3.5" floppy drive. As soon as Allison Ah, so you wish to use a 3.5" floppy for an
Altos that has a 5.25
DSQD?
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka
720k).
I have a few pounds of DSDD 3.5" media.
What I think I *don't* have is a 3.5" drive that can be jumpered to
ID 0.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD
5.25".
That's a possibility too. The drive in the Altos doesn't sound
particularly healthy, so I'm scouting a replacement.
Is there a document explaining the differences between the several
TEAC FD55Gxx drives? I have a bunch of TEAC FD55GFRs, but the "V"
models are really rare around here.
And speaking of floppy things, you remember that set of Kaypro
master
disks I got from you? I finally ID'ed them. They're MS-DOS based,
for a Kaypro 16. :) If you have a use for them I don't, and if not
I'll put them up to the list for postage.
Doc
11:06 a.m.
If that is the
question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka 720k).
I have a few pounds of DSDD 3.5" media.
What I think I *don't* have is a 3.5" drive that can be jumpered to ID 0.
12:51 p.m.
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 1:06 PM
The drive select jumper just links one of the drive select pins on the
interface connector to the appropriate internal signal. So if your drive
doesn't have jumpers, all you need to do is make up a cable between the
controller and the drive that (in this case) takes drive select 0 from
the cotnroller to whatever select pin (probably DS1) that the drive does
respond to. And link all other signals straight-through.
-tony
By "twisting" three wires:
10 - DS0
11 - GND
12 - DS1
you get what you want.
This is how IBM MFM drives had their twist done versus the floppy that
twisted more lines to twist into it the motor on line.
Please note you CAN NOT use any PC twisted cable for a standard floppy cable
but it is easy to "un-twist" part of a PC cable to use as a standard floppy
cable for a lot less $ than buying the components to build your own.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one
hole media aka
720k).
I have a few pounds of DSDD 3.5" media.
What I think I *don't* have is a 3.5" drive that can be jumpered to ID
0.
5:05 p.m.
By "twisting" three wires:
10 - DS0
11 - GND
12 - DS1
Alternitavely (if you like hacking about on PCBs), cut the trace going to
pin 12 of the connector, and reconnect it to pin 10.
you get what you want.
This is how IBM MFM drives had their twist done versus the floppy that
twisted more lines to twist into it the motor on line.
Sure.
Please note you CAN NOT use any PC twisted cable for a standard floppy cable
but it is easy to "un-twist" part of a PC cable to use as a standard floppy
cable for a lot less $ than buying the components to build your own.
On the other hand, if you're like me, you probably have plenty of 34 pin
edge connectors and headers in the junk box (becasue they're useful for
things other than PCs) and no PC floppy cables.
-tony
5:26 p.m.
connecting a floppy as DS0:
if you're not willing to trace the jumpers on the drive (almost all have
at least solder pads!), then cut the traces of pins 10 and 12 and put a
jumper wire from pin 10 of the connector to where pin 12 used to connect.
... or, do it like RS did,...
short 10, 12, and 14 on the drive together. Then remove pins from the
connector on the cable, so that each connector has only one of 10, 12, and 14
13 Jun
13 Jun
2:42 p.m.
connecting a floppy as DS0:
if you're not willing to trace the jumpers on the drive (almost all have
at least solder pads!), then cut the traces of pins 10 and 12 and put a
jumper wire from pin 10 of the connector to where pin 12 used to connect.
... or, do it like RS did,...
short 10, 12, and 14 on the drive together. Then remove pins from the
connector on the cable, so that each connector has only one of 10, 12, and 14
Or (on a 3.5" drive, which has a male header-type connector), cut off pin
12 on the drive and solder a wire between pins 10 and 12 on the drive
PCB. Just make sure you don't cut off the wrong pin :-)
-tony
12 Jun
12 Jun
7:08 p.m.
Allison wrote:
Well, I found a couple of 3.5" drives that can be jumpered, and the
Altos doesn't recognize 'em at all. I suspect it wants a drive that
does DD only.
Subject: Re:
Wild-hair floppy drive question
From: Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:01:12 -0500
To: General at mdrconsult.com, "Discussion at mdrconsult.com":On-Topic and
Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Eric Smith wrote:
Ah, so you wish to use a 3.5" floppy for an Altos that has a 5.25 DSQD?
If that is the question the answer is yes. (use one hole media aka 720k). Doc asks:
Sorry, no, I meant a 3.5" floppy drive. As soon as Allison replied I
realized the question was ambiguous.
I've found something intersting about the Compaq m/b that hosts my
1.2MB 5.25" disk drive, though.
That board auto-detects all its hardware on every boot. If I boot
with a DSQD disk in that drive, the BIOS auto-updates the settings to
'3.5" 1.44MB Drive".
Which is what prompted my question in the first place. Would a DSHD floppy drive with a DSHD disk in it
You mean a 96 TPI high-density 5.25" disk and drive (e.g., IBM 1.2M format
that was introduced with the PC/AT)? If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD 5.25".
Do you have the jumper settings for that? TEAC's documentation
drives me up the wall. I have an FD55GFR that I can make boot and read,
but not write or format. I suppose if I absolutely have to, I'll rob an
FD55GFV from the 11/53 - the -GFR should work fine on the RQDX3.
Doc
13 Jun
13 Jun
2:45 p.m.
Well, I found a couple of 3.5" drives that can
be jumpered, and the
Altos doesn't recognize 'em at all. I suspect it wants a drive that
does DD only.
Wild guess. Pin 34 changed its definition at some point (IIRC it used to
be Rdy/, it bacame disk_change/). Maybe that's your problem.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD
5.25".
Do you have the jumper settings for that? TEAC's documentation
drives me up the wall. I have an FD55GFR that I can make boot and read,
3:57 p.m.
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:45 PM
The thing that really annoys me about the Teac documentation is that the
jumpers are not explained in the service manual (and on later drives with
one big ASIC, you can't really work them out). OK, they're probably in
the OEM manaul, or something, but if all you have is the service manual,
that's not a lot of help...
-tony
I'll lookup the exact Teac jumpers but not only do you have to change the
two speed jumper but you must make sure pin 2 is grounded to select the
correct speed.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Well, I
found a couple of 3.5" drives that can be jumpered, and the
Altos doesn't recognize 'em at all. I suspect it wants a drive that
does DD only.
Wild guess. Pin 34 changed its definition at some point (IIRC it used to
be Rdy/, it bacame disk_change/). Maybe that's your problem.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD
5.25".
Do you have the jumper settings for that? TEAC's documentation
drives me up the wall. I have an FD55GFR that I can make boot and read,
4:09 p.m.
From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at randy482.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:57 PM
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:45 PM
The thing that really annoys me about the Teac documentation is that the
jumpers are not explained in the service manual (and on later drives with
one big ASIC, you can't really work them out). OK, they're probably in
the OEM manaul, or something, but if all you have is the service manual,
that's not a lot of help...
-tony
I'll lookup the exact Teac jumpers but not only do you have to change the
two speed jumper but you must make sure pin 2 is grounded to select the
correct speed.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
To make the Teac 1.2mb drive act like a QD drive there are two options:
Jumper I on, LG off, low on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector or Jumper I on, LG
on, high on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Well,
I found a couple of 3.5" drives that can be jumpered, and the
Altos doesn't recognize 'em at all. I suspect it wants a drive that
does DD only.
Wild guess. Pin 34 changed its definition at some point (IIRC it used to
be Rdy/, it bacame disk_change/). Maybe that's your problem.
If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD
5.25".
Do you have the jumper settings for that? TEAC's documentation
drives me up the wall. I have an FD55GFR that I can make boot and read,
4:33 p.m.
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at
randy482.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:57 PM
Thanks. I think it was the flip-flop on pin 2 that was hammering me.
I'm suddenly in the middle of a Tivoli TSM migration, but when things
cool off abit I'll try this.
Doc
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:45 PM
I'll lookup the exact Teac jumpers but not only do you have to change
the two speed jumper but you must make sure pin 2 is grounded to
select the correct speed.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
To make the Teac 1.2mb drive act like a QD drive there are two options:
Jumper I on, LG off, low on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector or Jumper I
on, LG on, high on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector. Well,
I found a couple of 3.5" drives that can be jumpered, and the
Altos doesn't recognize 'em at all. I suspect it wants a drive that
does DD only.
Wild guess. Pin 34 changed its definition at some point (IIRC it used to
be Rdy/, it bacame disk_change/). Maybe that's your problem.
> If not a TEAC FD55GFV will work as a DSQD 5.25".
Do you have the jumper settings for that? TEAC's documentation
drives me up the wall. I have an FD55GFR that I can make boot and
read,
The thing that really annoys me about the Teac documentation is that the
jumpers are not explained in the service manual (and on later drives
with
one big ASIC, you can't really work them out). OK, they're probably in
the OEM manaul, or something, but if all you have is the service manual,
that's not a lot of help...
-tony
4:39 p.m.
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:33 PM
You would think they would have included a jumper to select the speed and
ignore pin 2.
The best thing would be to cut the trace and ground it so the signal doesn't
go back to the controller. As a matter of fact cutting pin 34 often helps.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
<snip>
To make the
Teac 1.2mb drive act like a QD drive there are two options:
Jumper I on, LG off, low on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector or Jumper I on,
LG on, high on pin 2 of the 34 pin connector.
Thanks. I think it was the flip-flop on pin 2 that was hammering me.
I'm suddenly in the middle of a Tivoli TSM migration, but when things
cool off abit I'll try this.
Doc
7133
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