21 Jan
2021
21 Jan
'21
5:43 p.m.
I recently ran into an archive of various Pro 300 items, mostly from DECUS I believe.
That includes a full P/OS 3.2 distribution including (!) DECnet/Pro if I saw that right.
It's at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/
What makes things somewhat painful is that it's LHA compressed Teledisk images, which
is an ancient DOS based floppy imaging tool. The instructions say to run Teledisk on a
DOS system with a 5.25 inch floppy drive to write the images to RX50 floppies, which can
then be used.
If you don't have DOS handy, or would rather get floppy image files for use with
Xhomer, this can work but it's a bit painful.
I found there's a simpler way.
1. Decompress the LHA files. On a Mac, the unarchiver (I think that comes with the OS?)
handles that format. On other operating systems, I assume it's equally straightforward
to find a tool that handles this. You now have a pile of *.TD0 files, which are the
TeleDisk format files.
2. From http://www.seasip.info/Unix/LibDsk/ install LibDsk 1.5 (not 1.4).
3. Use the dsktrans tool you got from step 2 to convert each *.TD0 file to a raw image,
like this:
dsktrans -otype raw PRO177/177-21.TD0 proinstallv32.dsk
"raw" format means a straight sector dump in physical order; this is the
format expected by xHomer.
If for any reason you want a logical order image, for example to give to the SIMH
"rq" device that emulates an RQDXn controller, you'll need a tool that
reorders things. I have one in my RSTS file system tool "flx" (V3 in Python,
not the earlier 2.6 in C), "rx50.py". I can supply more details if needed.
paul
21 Jan
21 Jan
8:13 p.m.
I could upload LHA if you need a copy. This is what I used back in the
early 90's, because one could incorporate it with DOS batch files nicely
Bill
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 8:43 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I recently ran into an archive of various Pro 300
items, mostly from DECUS
I believe. That includes a full P/OS 3.2 distribution including (!)
DECnet/Pro if I saw that right.
It's at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/
What makes things somewhat painful is that it's LHA compressed Teledisk
images, which is an ancient DOS based floppy imaging tool. The
instructions say to run Teledisk on a DOS system with a 5.25 inch floppy
drive to write the images to RX50 floppies, which can then be used.
If you don't have DOS handy, or would rather get floppy image files for
use with Xhomer, this can work but it's a bit painful.
I found there's a simpler way.
1. Decompress the LHA files. On a Mac, the unarchiver (I think that comes
with the OS?) handles that format. On other operating systems, I assume
it's equally straightforward to find a tool that handles this. You now
have a pile of *.TD0 files, which are the TeleDisk format files.
2. From http://www.seasip.info/Unix/LibDsk/ install LibDsk 1.5 (not 1.4).
3. Use the dsktrans tool you got from step 2 to convert each *.TD0 file to
a raw image, like this:
dsktrans -otype raw PRO177/177-21.TD0 proinstallv32.dsk
"raw" format means a straight sector dump in physical order; this is
the format expected by xHomer.
If for any reason you want a logical order image, for example to give to
the SIMH "rq" device that emulates an RQDXn controller, you'll need a tool
that reorders things. I have one in my RSTS file system tool "flx" (V3 in
Python, not the earlier 2.6 in C), "rx50.py". I can supply more details if
needed.
paul
8:20 p.m.
Hey Paul...
This is really helpful. I've had to deal with those archives for the
Rainbow stuff I do and have some additional caveats below I thought I'd
share...
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 6:43 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org wrote:
This package is good, though there is also a smaller wteledisk that
converts to sector images.
3. Use the dsktrans tool you got from step 2 to convert each *.TD0 file to
> a raw image, like this:
> dsktrans -otype raw PRO177/177-21.TD0 proinstallv32.dsk
> "raw" format means a straight sector dump in physical order; this is
> the format expected by xHomer.
Yea. I'm using this to convert td0 files to imd files...
If for any reason you want a logical order image, for example to give to
> the SIMH "rq" device that emulates an RQDXn controller, you'll need a
tool
> that reorders things. I have one in my RSTS file system tool "flx" (V3 in
> Python, not the earlier 2.6 in C), "rx50.py". I can supply more details
if
> needed.
I have a c program that does physical to logical and vive versa for the
rainbow, as well as optionally putting the PBP at the front of the disk so
mtools groks the images (though you'd want to do this with a copy)...
though the pro never really had much support for msdos floppies...
All of these formats are understood by MESS's rainbow driver...
Warner
paul
I recently ran into an archive of various Pro 300
items, mostly from DECUS
I believe. That includes a full P/OS 3.2 distribution including (!)
DECnet/Pro if I saw that right.
It's at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/
What makes things somewhat painful is that it's LHA compressed Teledisk
images, which is an ancient DOS based floppy imaging tool. The
instructions say to run Teledisk on a DOS system with a 5.25 inch floppy
drive to write the images to RX50 floppies, which can then be used.
Those instructions are dated. These days the cool kids use imagedisk to
convert the teledisks to imd format. Usually in dosbox... or they use unix
variants of these...
The real pain is that the lha has evolved since then and some of the lha
archives there use methods libarchive won't grok...
If you don't have DOS handy, or would rather get floppy image files for use
with Xhomer, this can work but it's a bit
painful.
I found there's a simpler way.
1. Decompress the LHA files. On a Mac, the unarchiver (I think that comes
with the OS?) handles that format. On other operating systems, I assume
it's equally straightforward to find a tool that handles this. You now
have a pile of *.TD0 files, which are the TeleDisk format files.
Some, but not all the archives.. macos uses libarchive under the covers.
Most of the td0 I've found decompress, but archive with smaller files are
troubling....
2. From http://www.seasip.info/Unix/LibDsk/ install LibDsk 1.5 (not 1.4).
22 Jan
22 Jan
7:32 a.m.
On Jan 21, 2021, at 11:20 PM, Warner Losh <imp at
bsdimp.com> wrote:
Hey Paul...
This is really helpful. I've had to deal with those archives for the Rainbow stuff I
do and have some additional caveats below I thought I'd share...
Thanks for that information.
Part of my motivation is that I mostly run Mac OS, and after that Linux -- not DOS let
alone Windows. So I was hoping to find a Unix solution which is what I documented.
Now I have two additional questions.
1. In the PRO177 collection (P/OS 3.2 base system) the image 177-20 which is the
ProSetupV32 disk seems to be bad. It converts fine, but the converted file is 160k, not
400k as it should be. If I pad it out with zeroes it still doesn't work, even though
the data at the start looks plausible. Any advice? Is there a good one somewhere? Tim
Shoppa's copy has the same issue.
2. The Xhomer P/OS image has Pro/DECnet installed, it seems, but it doesn't work. I
see the floppies (5 of them) but no information on how to use them. Any information on
Pro/DECnet install and setup anywhere?
paul
8:09 a.m.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 8:32 AM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
dosbox runs on macos :).
On Jan 21, 2021, at 11:20 PM, Warner Losh <imp
at bsdimp.com> wrote:
Hey Paul...
This is really helpful. I've had to deal with those archives for the
Rainbow
stuff I do and have some additional caveats below I thought I'd
share...
Thanks for that information.
Part of my motivation is that I mostly run Mac OS, and after that Linux --
not DOS let alone Windows. So I was hoping to find a Unix solution which
is what I documented.
Now I have two additional questions.
1. In the PRO177 collection (P/OS 3.2 base system) the image 177-20 which
is the ProSetupV32 disk seems to be bad. It converts fine, but the
converted file is 160k, not 400k as it should be. If I pad it out with
zeroes it still doesn't work, even though the data at the start looks
plausible. Any advice? Is there a good one somewhere? Tim Shoppa's copy
has the same issue.
The DEC Robin/VT180 had a format that was 160k long. It's 1 side, 40
tracks, 8 sectors. Though I can't imagine it being valid in context...
Have you tried the copies that are at
https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/decus/vmslt02a/pro/ ?
tar tvf 177-20.lzh
-rw-rw-rw- 0 0 0 245921 Oct 22 1993 177-20.TD0
which suggests a 'normal' size to me... Though I've not decoded it, and
it's possible the original was corrupt somehow...
2. The Xhomer P/OS image has Pro/DECnet installed, it
seems, but it
doesn't work. I see the floppies (5 of them) but no information on how to
use them. Any information on Pro/DECnet install and setup anywhere?
pro175 Pro/DECnet came up in my searches. It's also there. There's a
pro175.txt that has:
Following is a list of the manuals you will receive when you
order Media Service Charge Code (EE):
"PRO/DECnet User's Guide"
"PRO/DECnet Problem Determination Guide"
Notes: This program is also included on DECUS No. VS0112.
Restrictions: A DECNA module is required to use the NET1 port on the
rear of the system unit.
Documentation available in hardcopy only. Sources not included.
though I wasn't able to find it in the usual places, nor by searching for
AA-V445A-TH which is the document ID number for the first one (I could just
find references to it).
Warner
8:28 a.m.
I had no problem expanding disk 177-20.
I did it on a Linux system using wteledisk (which I got from
https://github.com/jmechnich/wteledsk.git) using this script:
for d in
~/downloads/decpro_software/ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/PRO* ; do
??? newname=$(basename $d | tr [A-Z] [a-z])
??? mkdir decus/$newname
??? cd decus/$newname
??? for f in $d/*.lzh ; do
??? lha -x $f
??? done
??? for f in *.td0 ; do
??? ~/build/wteledsk/src/wteledsk $f -o`basename $f .td0`.dsk
??? done
??? cd ../..
done
Here's what the files look like:
$ ls -la build/pos32/decus/pro177/177-20.dsk
downloads/decpro_software/ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/PRO177/177-20.lzh
-rw------- 1 user group 409600 May 16? 2020
build/pos32/decus/pro177/177-20.dsk
-rw-r--r-- 1 user group 152827 Oct 22? 1993
downloads/decpro_software/ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/PRO177/177-20.lzh
$ md5sum build/pos32/decus/pro177/177-20.dsk
downloads/decpro_software/ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/PRO177/177-20.lzh
ca88b1d528dab3a5b3c1aaed1dd0f215 build/pos32/decus/pro177/177-20.dsk
fae286c23044d1cac4d412c64afce0f6
downloads/decpro_software/ftp.update.uu.se/pub/professional/PRO177/177-20.lzh
Did you possibly download a corrupted copy of 177-20.lzh?
--Bjoren
On 1/22/2021 11:09 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 8:32 AM Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
dosbox runs on macos :).
On Jan 21, 2021, at 11:20 PM, Warner Losh <imp
at bsdimp.com> wrote:
Hey Paul...
This is really helpful. I've had to deal with those archives for the
Rainbow
stuff I do and have some additional caveats below I thought I'd
share...
Thanks for that information.
Part of my motivation is that I mostly run Mac OS, and after that Linux --
not DOS let alone Windows. So I was hoping to find a Unix solution which
is what I documented.
Now I have two additional questions.
1. In the PRO177 collection (P/OS 3.2 base system) the image 177-20 which
is the ProSetupV32 disk seems to be bad. It converts fine, but the
converted file is 160k, not 400k as it should be. If I pad it out with
zeroes it still doesn't work, even though the data at the start looks
plausible. Any advice? Is there a good one somewhere? Tim Shoppa's copy
has the same issue.
The DEC Robin/VT180 had a format that was 160k long. It's 1 side, 40
tracks, 8 sectors. Though I can't imagine it being valid in context...
Have you tried the copies that are at
https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/decus/vmslt02a/pro/ ?
tar tvf 177-20.lzh
-rw-rw-rw- 0 0 0 245921 Oct 22 1993 177-20.TD0
which suggests a 'normal' size to me... Though I've not decoded it, and
it's possible the original was corrupt somehow...
2. The Xhomer P/OS image has Pro/DECnet
installed, it seems, but it
doesn't work. I see the floppies (5 of them) but no information on how to
use them. Any information on Pro/DECnet install and setup anywhere?
pro175 Pro/DECnet came up in my searches. It's also there. There's a
pro175.txt that has:
Following is a list of the manuals you will receive when you
order Media Service Charge Code (EE):
"PRO/DECnet User's Guide"
"PRO/DECnet Problem Determination Guide"
Notes: This program is also included on DECUS No. VS0112.
Restrictions: A DECNA module is required to use the NET1 port on the
rear of the system unit.
Documentation available in hardcopy only. Sources not included.
though I wasn't able to find it in the usual places, nor by searching for
AA-V445A-TH which is the document ID number for the first one (I could just
find references to it).
Warner
9:49 a.m.
Will try that tool. I tried the alternate copy Warner mentioned, same result.
"dskid" tells me that dsklib thinks of this particular file as a 40 track 8
sector image, not 80 track 10 sectors as it's supposed to be and all the other are.
paul
On Jan 22, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Bjoren Davis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I had no problem expanding disk 177-20.
I did it on a Linux system using wteledisk (which I got from
https://github.com/jmechnich/wteledsk.git) using this script: ...
11 a.m.
On Jan 22, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Bjoren Davis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I had no problem expanding disk 177-20.
I did it on a Linux system using wteledisk (which I got from
https://github.com/jmechnich/wteledsk.git) using this script: ...
Thanks for the pointer. That tools did the job. Strange that only that one disk produced
a problem with dsklib.
paul
11:23 a.m.
On Jan 22, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
...
Now I have two additional questions.
2. The Xhomer P/OS image has Pro/DECnet installed, it seems, but it doesn't work. I
see the floppies (5 of them) but no information on how to use them. Any information on
Pro/DECnet install and setup anywhere?
I looked more closely and it turns out that Pro/DECnet is *not* on the Xhomer supplied
P/OS image.
I tried to install it, using the "install application" tool in P/OS, pointing to
the decnetv21x disk image. Tried that both on the Xhomer image, and on a freshly created
image from an OS install using the disk images in the PRO177 directory. Same result for
both.
The install does a little work but then quickly gives me a message to the effect that it
needs to be run by a privileged user, enter RESUME to leave. I thought that
"SYSTEM" would be a privileged user? Apparently not, so what do I do instead?
The resulting state of the system is that it has created a menu entry for the Pro/DECnet
management tool, but attempting to run that produces an abort message complaining about
missing files. So apparently the install failed (as the message indicated) but didn't
clean up stuff it left behind.
I'd like to get this running, if for no other reason than to confirm my CNA is
operational.
paul
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