cctech digest, Vol 1 #360 - 29 msgs - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

9 Feb 2003

...
     I'm either being imprecise or various readings
I have done were
imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring
to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining"
some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is
acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being
fetched Hi Everyone,

I have recently researched this but it is not true.  The so called
"pipelining"
was just that internally  when the CPU does an ADD instructions it
does some sub-operations currently.  This was hyped in some texts
by using (wrongly) the word "pipelining".  Normally, "pipelining" for
micros
refers to
overlaping the fetch of one instruction with the "execute phase" of
the previous instruction.  The 6502 does none of this.  Note, the Z8
actually does some limited pipelining.  This put it ahead in bragging rights
amongs the 8-bitters.

Cheers,

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: &lt;cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
To: &lt;cctech(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #360 - 29 msgs

...
  Send cctech mailing list submissions to
 cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org

 You can reach the person managing the list at
 cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."

 Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Sellam Ismail)
    2. Re: Unassembled Superboard II (Sellam Ismail)
    3. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Sellam Ismail)
    4. Kaypro II available. (Alan Emmerson)
    5. Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel (Eric Dittman)
    6. Re: interesting find (Tony Duell)
    7. Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable (Tony Duell)
    8. Re: Rookie HP-85 problem (Tony Duell)
    9. Re: Old Computer Companies (John Honniball)
   10. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Mike Ford)
   11. RE: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel (John Willis)
   12. Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable (pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com)
   13. RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (Kelly Leavitt)
   14. RE: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) (John Willis)
   15. RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (John Willis)
   16. Re: Rookie HP-85 problem (Joe)
   17. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
        collecting/storing them? (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
   18. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
        collecting/storing them? (John Allain)
   19. Re: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (Jerome H. Fine)
   20. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
        collecting/storing them? (R. D. Davis)
   21. RE: Atari ST Help (Lawrence Walker)
   22. TTY ASR-33 Platen? (George R. Gonzalez)
   23. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Jim Keohane)
   24. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Jim Keohane)
   25. Re: Grundy Newbrain fix (lgomez)
   26. OT Need parts (James Rice)

 --__--__--

 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:27:17 -0800 (PST)
 From: Sellam Ismail &lt;foo(a)siconic.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote:

  I used BigMac for all my projects, including the
doomed SSC
 ROM... (*1)

 Gruss
 H.
 (*1) I don't know if I already told the story 
 I told you I would optimize your code for you :)

 Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
...
  International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
...

  * Old computing resources for business and academia at 
www.VintageTech.com *
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:34:32 -0800 (PST)
 From: Sellam Ismail &lt;foo(a)siconic.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Re: Unassembled Superboard II
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote:

 > Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
 > > Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its
...
    original box the other day. 
 Oh! You lucky son-of-a-gun!  What REV? 
 The solder mask on the board says "Ohio Scientific Model 600 CPU" and
"REV
 D".

 The manual is copyright 1982 and the original invoice is dated August 4,
 1982.

 Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
...
  International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
...

  * Old computing resources for business and academia at 
www.VintageTech.com *
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 3
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:40:34 -0800 (PST)
 From: Sellam Ismail &lt;foo(a)siconic.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote:

  p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in
cpu speed tests vs
 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes,
 is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up
 definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. 
 No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete.

 Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
...
  International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
...

  * Old computing resources for business and academia at 
www.VintageTech.com *
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 4
 From: "Alan Emmerson" &lt;aje(a)technet2000.com.au&gt;
 To: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Kaypro II available.
 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:44:55 +1000
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 I have two Kaypro II that I have owned from new. Both are upgraded to run
 at higher clock speeds  and one has a cooling fan fitted.  One has the PC8
 ROM There is a complete set of the bundled distribution software (Select,
 Perfect Writer etc)  with manuals, including that really first class ground
...
  breaking program SBasic, and other programs that I
wrote in SBasic
 including multi variable non linear regression analysis.  Also Unidos and
 etc  which allows the floppy drives to emulate those of other machines.

 I used one of these machines  to run the first simulation of the CSIRO
 Sydney to Melbourne high speed railway.

  What price might one expect for such a a machine?.

 Alan Emmerson
 Brisbane QLD
 Australia

 --__--__--

 Message: 5
 From: Eric Dittman &lt;dittman(a)dittman.net&gt;
 Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:46:03 -0600 (CST)
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

  Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel

 Where are you located?
 --
 Eric Dittman
 dittman(a)dittman.net
 Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

 --__--__--

 Message: 6
 From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
 Subject: Re: interesting find
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:42:32 +0000 (GMT)
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

  And when nobody cared about the size, weight and
power consumption
 of computers... ;-)

 > The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using
 > wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. 
 The HP9100B was entirely discrete transistors [1], with normal R/W core
 memory, the core-on-a-rope microcde store and inductively coupled PCB
 tracks for the main program ROM.

 The HP9810 which replaced it was built from TTL chips, with 256 nybble
 PROMs for the microocde store (and the ALU, which was a couple of
 programmed PROMs), 512 byte ROMs for the main program store, and 256 bit
 DRAMs (1103s) for the R/W memory.

 Admittedly the 9810 had space for an internal thermal printer, and it had
 more user memory. But in the basic configuration it did less ('Math'
 functions, like SIN, COS, TAN were on a plug-in ROM module on the 9810,
 and bulit-in on the 9100). But the 9810 (the machine built with ICs) is
 larger than the 9100.

 [1] OK, there are 8 IC op-amps in the 9100B on the card reader PCB (read
 amplifier and comparator for the 3 data tracks and the clock track). But
 the machine will run without the card reader ;-)

 -tony

 --__--__--

 Message: 7
 From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
 Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:21:19 +0000 (GMT)
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

  On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote:

  I don't see how you can do a proper test
without a visual inspection  of
  the connections... And I've yet to see a
moulded connector that  provides
  a proper strain-relief for the cable. 
 A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though admittedly a
 lot only check earth continuity at a proper current).  As for strain 
 I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying conductors at
 a significant current, mainly because there's no easy way to do this
 without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) -- the
 maximum current you could pass would be the normal operating current of
 the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which is not enough. Even then
 you couldn't measure the voltage drop across one of the conductors.

 You may have guessed that I don't trust PAT testers, and I have no faith
 at all in the safety standards as usually applied. Proper safety tests on
 the other hand...

  releif, well you're not supposed to swing the
equipment by the power
 cable, Tony! 
 True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to pull
 out of the moulded connector in normal use exposing the single-insulated
 wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded cables round here.

 I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not used
 on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. But most moulded cables
 are not a lot better than that.

   The cable
mounted section looks like a normal 'cold condition'  _socket_,
  but there are 3 round pins sticking out of the
face of it (where the
 socket holes would be). The chassis part looks like the normal plug
 (recessed into the panel, etc) with 3 holes in it in place of the  normal
  plug pins. 
 I've a feeling I've seen this used somewhere -- but not recently, and I
 can't think where :-( 
 I've thought of another place I've seen them used. Leitz Focomat 1
 enlarger, at the top of the column. Connector for the lampholder assembly.

 -tony

 --__--__--

 Message: 8
 From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
 Subject: Re: Rookie HP-85 problem
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:41:27 +0000 (GMT)
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 > OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get
...
  > the damn cover back on.
 > It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the
 > cover forcing it.
 >
 > Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest
...
   of the cover
first? 
 No, pull off the eject button (you should do this before removing the
 cover). Then the cover fits easily. Put the button back on when the cover
 is screwed in place.

 -tony

 --__--__--

 Message: 9
 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:08:16 +0000
 From: John Honniball &lt;coredump(a)gifford.co.uk&gt;
 Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Hans B Pufal wrote:
 >> Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a
...

 There are a few Elliot 803s preserved in Britain.  One at Bletchley
 Park, another at the Science Museum, and probably others.  They have
 an interesting power supply: the incoming mains is used to charge
 a *big* Ni-Cd battery, which powers the computer.  The same battery
 is used in the Nimrod aircraft, and the RAF have kindly supplied
 spares for the 803s.

 --
 John Honniball
 coredump(a)gifford.co.uk

 --__--__--

 Message: 10
 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:03:12 -0800
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 From: Mike Ford &lt;mikeford(a)socal.rr.com&gt;
 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

   Get a
copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one
 environment, and works fine on every Apple. 
Oh Yeah!  BigMac (or as we used to call it at Software Productions,
"BigHack"). 

 My favorite was always LISA, Laser Interactive Symbolic Assembler, a
 complete editor/asm/runtime kind of setup.

 I need to look around and figure what the status is of the program, but I
 have most of the versions of it that ever existed.

 --__--__--

 Message: 11
 Subject: RE: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:02:00 -0700
 From: "John Willis" &lt;jwillis(a)arielusa.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 New Mexico, USA

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Eric Dittman
 Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 4:46 PM
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Cc:
 Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel

  Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel

 Where are you located?
 --
 Eric Dittman
 dittman(a)dittman.net
 Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of
winmail.dat]
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 12
 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 01:24:44 GMT
 From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 On Feb 7, 23:21, Tony Duell wrote:
  > On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote:
 >
 > > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual 
inspection
  > of
 > > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that
 > provides
 > > a proper strain-relief for the cable.
 >
 > A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though  admittedly a
  > lot only check earth continuity at a proper
current).  As for  strain

 I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying  conductors at
  a significant current, mainly because there's
no easy way to do this
 without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) --  the
  maximum current you could pass would be the
normal operating current  of
  the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which
is not enough. Even  then
  you couldn't measure the voltage drop across
one of the conductors. 
 A proper PAT tester to current standards has a socket for each end of
 an IEC cable, and each cable is supposed to be individually tested with
 both ends plugged in to the tester.

  > releif, well you're not supposed to
swing the equipment by the  power
   cable,
Tony! 
 True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to  pull
  out of the moulded connector in normal use
exposing the  single-insulated
  wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded
cables round here. 
 I've only seen one do that -- and it was an instant candidate for the
 wirecutters at both ends.  A proper visual inspection is supposed to be
 the first part of the PAT.

  I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the
cord grip missing/not  used
  on an electrical safety test. I certainly would.

 Yes.  The first thing I do with any multiblock is take it apart to see
 how the ends are wired -- the cheap ones are usually in a condition
 where I feel compelled to re-do the job.

 --
 Pete Peter Turnbull
 Network Manager
 University of York

 --__--__--

 Message: 13
 From: Kelly Leavitt &lt;CCTalk(a)catcorner.org&gt;
 To: &quot;&#39;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org '" &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:12:08 -0500
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports MFM up
...
  to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to
RLL capacity. I'm
 looking for the largest drives I can find.

 From: Ethan Dicks
 --- Kelly Leavitt &lt;CCTalk(a)catcorner.org&gt; wrote:
  Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would
be for a Tandy 6000
 running Xenix.

 I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). 
 Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two
 choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190).

 I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected
 geometries?  (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install
 procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?)

 -ethan

 --__--__--

 Message: 14
 Subject: RE: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920)
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:37:25 -0700
 From: "John Willis" &lt;jwillis(a)arielusa.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 I  seem to have only up to RA81, but everything else :(
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Dan Veeneman
 Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 3:04 PM
 To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
 Cc:
 Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920)

 Hello,

 I'm scheduled to pick up a pair of DEC RA-82 drives along
 with an HP 7920 drive in the next couple of weeks.

 I don't have any technical documentation for either of these
 drives, but I'd be very interested in learning the proper
 procedure for locking down the heads on these drives
 prior to moving them.  If anyone has the steps to take
 for either or both of these drives, please drop me a note
 or point me to the proper archive.

 They've already been warehoused, so it might be too late,
 but I'd like to be as safe as I can.

 Thanks!

 Cheers,

 Dan
 www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html

 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of
winmail.dat]
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 15
 Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:43:20 -0700
 From: "John Willis" &lt;jwillis(a)arielusa.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 I have an RD54 available... no idea whether its working.
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Kelly Leavitt
 Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 6:12 PM
 To: &#39;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org '
 Cc:
 Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives

 Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports
 MFM up
 to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm
 looking for the largest drives I can find.

 From: Ethan Dicks
 --- Kelly Leavitt &lt;CCTalk(a)catcorner.org&gt; wrote:
  Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would
be for a Tandy 6000
 running Xenix.

 I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). 
 Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two
 choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190).

 I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected
 geometries?  (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install
 procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?)

 -ethan

 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of
winmail.dat]
...

 --__--__--

 Message: 16
 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:27:05
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 From: Joe &lt;rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com&gt;
 Subject: Re: Rookie HP-85 problem
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Pull on the tape eject button. It's mounted on a stud and will pull right off.
Just push it back on to re-install it.
...

    Joe

 At 01:11 PM 2/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
 >OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get
 >the damn cover back on.
 >It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the
 >cover forcing it.
 >
 >Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest
...
  of the cover
first?

HELP

RH 
 --__--__--

 Message: 17
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:13:09 -0800 (PST)
 From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" &lt;cisin(a)xenosoft.com&gt;
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
   collecting/storing them?
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

  Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will
help make computer owners
 recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a 
 no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get
 rid of their "old" tech gear and buy more new stuff.

 > meets the charities' minimum standards. "For the most part what we get
in
...
   here is pretty
darn old," St. Denis said. HP's recycling program accepts 
 . . .  some of it is as much as two years old!!!!

 A while back, HP began to "recycle" toner cartridges for the purpose of
 making fewer empties available for refilling (which competes with their
 new cartridge sales).

 What do YOU think their primary motivation is??

 "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?"
                    ^^^^
 It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from
 circulation.

 --
 Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin(a)xenosoft.com

 --__--__--

 Message: 18
 From: "John Allain" &lt;allain(a)panix.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
   collecting/storing them?
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:28:25 -0500
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

  A while back, HP began to "recycle"
toner cartridges for the
 purpose of making fewer empties available for refilling (which
 competes with their new cartridge sales). 
 New cartridge sales??  I bought one of their "New" cartridges.
 Here's what the small print says:
   "This newly manufactured product may contain parts and
    materials recovered from the HP Printing Supplies Return
    and Recycling Program."

  What do YOU think their primary motivation is??

 Selling refills themselves, But just Calling them new.

 John A.

 --__--__--

 Message: 19
 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 23:59:51 -0500
 From: "Jerome H. Fine" &lt;jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to&gt;
 Organization: Just Sufficient
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Subject: Re: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Kelly Leavitt wrote: 
   I'm
looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity).  Hmm... those aren't so
common (in the DEC world, there are two
 choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). 
 Jerome Fine replies:

 By the way, the RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 or 1335 with the
 R7 jumper added to the logic board.  Otherwise, the DEC
 RQDX2 will not recognize the drive.  I have never tried them
 on the RQDX3 without the R7 jumper, but it might be possible -
 probably NOT.

 And while there may still be rare occasions when you can actually
 complete the FORMAT required for an RD53, I would recommend
 that they be used ONLY for scratch at this point at the end of their
 life cycle.  I suppose that there might still be the odd RD53 that is
 still living a good life, but most (almost all) have become so unreliable
 that I strongly recommend NOT using them for any files you care to
 see the next time you turn the computer on.

 Sincerely yours,

 Jerome Fine
 --
 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

 --__--__--

 Message: 20
 Date: 8 Feb 2003 00:57:58 -0500
 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:57:58 -0500
 From: "R. D. Davis" &lt;rdd(a)rddavis.org&gt;
 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is
   collecting/storing them?
 Organization: why?
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 08:13:09PM
-0800:
...
  > > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green
will help make computer owners
...
  > > recycle more of their old tech gear. The
computer maker is testing a
 >
 > no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get
...
   rid of their
"old" tech gear and buy more new stuff. 
 Wasn't HP the company that was saving and preserving the "vintage"
 computer equipment turned back in to them?  I think I read something
 about this on their web site, or somewhere, about a year or two ago.
 That's not to say they weren't scrapping newer equipment, however, and
 I don't recall reading how old the equipment had to be to qualify for
 preservation.

 > What do YOU think their primary motivation is??
 >
 >
 > "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?"
 >                    ^^^^
 > It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from
...
   circulation.

 Yep... even the vintage ones if they still save them from being
 scrapped; surely they still get sent off to a warehouse somewhere to
 keep them out of circulation.  Speaking of circulation, an HP-3000
 Series III computer running MPE-IV was used to process data for the
 circulation department of the Baltimore Sun back around 1990... it was
 quite a contrast to see that, and it's disk farm, right across the
 room from a sea of big blue cabinets for an IBM mainframe system.

 --
 Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
...
  All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief
that we're above Nature &
...
  rdd(a)rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures,
using dogma to justify such
...
  http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify
much human cruelty.

 --__--__--

 Message: 21
 From: "Lawrence Walker" &lt;lgwalker(a)mts.net&gt;
 To: "Jeffrey S. Worley" &lt;Technoid(a)30below.com&gt;om>, cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:27:36 -0600
 Subject: RE: Atari ST Help
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Hmmm how did my address get into this ?
 As the old flame went "check your attributes"
 and in this case your deletions.

 Lawrence

 On 7 Feb 2003, , Jeffrey S. Worley wrote:

  BTW, the Link II's they are selling are NEW.
Call and ask or
 leave an email. I just checked their catalog.  The link I
 bough was from them IIRC. It came in it's original packaging
 and was perfect in all respects. Still is perfect though now
 used... ;-)

 Regards,

 Jeff

  Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY
too
 much money for a used adapter for an old computer.

 You would think that at this point, they'd be... 

 lgwalker@ mts.net 

 lgwalker@ mts.net

 --__--__--

 Message: 22
 From: "George R. Gonzalez" &lt;grg(a)umn.edu&gt;
 To: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: TTY ASR-33 Platen?
 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:59:24 -0800
 Organization: Hearing Research Lab
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 I have been blessed with *two* Teletype ASR-33's.  Apart from a minor
 cleaning, they are going to be just fine.  EXCEPT the rubber platens are as
...
  hard as Chinese arithmetic!  In case you havent
experienced this, if the
 platen gets hard, the printer doesnt print well-- the typehead kinda bounces
...
  off the paper and doesnt leave a clean dark mark.

 I've tried the usual remedies-- acetone cleans them up, but they're still
 rock hard.

 I need some suggestions!  Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber,
 given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french
dressing", or what?
...

 Note that I don't need to clean or make it "grippier", it needs to be
 softened, a lot.

 Regards,

 George

 --__--__--

 Message: 23
 From: "Jim Keohane" &lt;jimkeo(a)multi-platforms.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:06:13 -0500
 Organization: Multi-Platforms, Inc.
 Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org

 Sellam Ismail,

     I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were
 imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been
referring
...
  to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also,
there's the "pipelining"
...
  some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of
an instruction is
 acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being
 fetched

    So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close with
 pipelining and with use of zero page.

    Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory,
 steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory.

 Cheers,   - Jim

 Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc.

    "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!"
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Sellam Ismail" &lt;foo(a)siconic.com&gt;
 To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 18:40
 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+

 > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote:
 >
 > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs
 > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes,
> > > is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up
> > > definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like.
> >
> > No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete.
> >
> > Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer
> Festival
>
...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >
----
> ...
  International Man of Intrigue and Danger >
http://www.vintage.org
> >
> >  * Old computing resources for business and academia at
> www.VintageTech.com *
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 24
> From: "Jim Keohane" &lt;jimkeo(a)multi-platforms.com&gt;
> To: &lt;cctech(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
> Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:13:14 -0500
> Organization: Multi-Platforms, Inc.
> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
>
>    Not sure if this was mentioned as another option:
>
>    There's the MERLIN assembler. Versions for ProDos and DOS 3.3.
>
>    - Jim
>
> Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc.
>
>    "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Hudson" &lt;rhudson(a)cnonline.net&gt;
> To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt;
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 00:19
> Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+
>
>
> > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II?
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 25
> From: "lgomez" &lt;lgomez(a)cdromsa.es&gt;
> Subject: Re: Grundy Newbrain fix
> To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:31:42 +0100
> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
>
> Please, can you say me how can i solve this problem? I've a
> Newbrain AD with the same problem.
>
> Regards
>
> On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 17:43:50 +0100
>  Torben Ring &lt;toring(a)inet.uni2.dk&gt; wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a Grundy Newbrain, which wouldn't start, or if it
> > started it would only show random chars in the display.
> > I've found out what was wrong with the machine and if
> > anyone needs help with fixing his (or hers) machine, I'll
> > be able to point to the problem. As far as I can tell,
> > this is a common problem with all these machines, and it
> > only gets worse as time goes by.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Torben Ring
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:28:06 -0600
> From: James Rice &lt;jrice54(a)charter.net&gt;
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: OT Need parts
> Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
>
> I need one of the beige plastic headed screws that secure the side cover
> on a Dell Dimension case.  The is for my UMAX S900 that shares a
> PaloAlto Design case with the earlier Dell Dimensions.  I also need two
> blank drive filler panels for a HP NetServer LC II.
>
> James
> --
> http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html
>
>
>
> End of cctech Digest