24 Jan
2011
24 Jan
'11
5:19 p.m.
Here's something I was thinking about the other
day. I *know* for a fact that SCSI interface hard drives existed with 8" platters.
I've never seen one, however. Does anyone know of any specific model numbers, or have
any product information or pictures of such devices?
I just looked in my collection of 8" drives. I have two 8"
Imprimis/CDC 97201-12G PA8P1A ST81236N Sabre drives with the original
style SCSI connectors on the back. There are manuals for the drive on
Bitsavers at:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/sabre/83325700N_PA8xx_736-1230mb_Par…,
and
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/discs/sabre/83325720F_PA8xx_736-1230mb_Mai….
The manuals say that the drives are 1.2G, 512 byte/sector drives with
an HP SCSI differential interface. I can post pictures if you are
interested.
--
Michael Thompson
29 Nov
29 Nov
12:27 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Did anyone on the list win the Microsoft OS/2 1.1 auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those disks...
Jim
30 Nov
30 Nov
9:35 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Do you recall what it went for? Version 1.1 and 1.2 are the two with Microsoft taking
credit for the OS right?
--- On Tue, 11/29/11, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
From: Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net>
Did anyone on the list win the
Microsoft OS/2 1.1 auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those
disks...
Jim
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:04 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure
about 1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any
legacy code from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that
copyright should have expired now - it been 20+ years...
Jim
On 11/30/2011 12:35 PM, Sam Onella wrote:
Do you recall what it went for? Version 1.1 and 1.2
are the two with Microsoft taking credit for the OS right?
--- On Tue, 11/29/11, Jim Scheef<scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
> From: Jim Scheef<scheefj at netscape.net>
> Did anyone on the list win the
> Microsoft OS/2 1.1 auction that closed a
> few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those
> disks...
>
> Jim
>
11:37 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 Dec 2011 at 14:04, Jim Scheef wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure
about 1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any
legacy code from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that
copyright should have expired now - it been 20+ years...
In the US, this may be regarded as a "collaborative corporate work"
or whatever it's called. 130 years protection, thank you Mary Bono,
Disney, Gershwin trust... Otherwise, 95 years.
In 130 years, will anyone even know what a personal computer was?
--Chuck
11:54 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
God forbid the copyright on Sonny's songs should expire while that tree
still stands at Heavenly Valley. ;-^)
On 12/2/2011 2:37 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 2 Dec 2011 at 14:04, Jim Scheef wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure
about 1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any
legacy code from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that
copyright should have expired now - it been 20+ years...
In the US, this may be
regarded as a "collaborative corporate work"
or whatever it's called. 130 years protection, thank you Mary Bono,
Disney, Gershwin trust... Otherwise, 95 years.
In 130 years, will anyone even know what a personal computer was?
--Chuck
2:44 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 Dec 2011 at 14:54, Jim Scheef wrote:
God forbid the copyright on Sonny's songs should
expire while that
tree still stands at Heavenly Valley. ;-^)
A not-well-known tidbit is that Mary Bono thought that copyrights
should be perpetual. Evidently, she'd not read the US Constitution.
Apparently, neither has the Supreme Court. They held that long
extension of copyright was perfectly legal. I believe it was
Lawrence Lessig who asked if perpetual copyright could be achieved by
multiple finite extensions of the copyright term. The Supremes
thought that perfectly reasonable.
I believe that Prof. Lessig has another iron in the fire currently,
namely Golan v. Holder, arguing the unconstitutionality of "restored
copyrights". A decision from the Supremes is due any year now.
As Fred observed, you will be long dead by the time the copyright
expires on OS/2. The only question remaining is will your great-
great-great-grandhildren also be dust before the work enters the
public domain.
--Chuck
6:03 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
A not-well-known tidbit is that Mary Bono thought that
copyrights
should be perpetual. Evidently, she'd not read the US Constitution.
Does it prohibit thinking things should be other than the way they are?
As Fred observed, you will be long dead by the time
the copyright
expires on OS/2.
Actually, that's not really knowable, because that time is ill-defined.
Copyright expiration varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, so there
is no single "time the copyright expires on OS/2", not unless and until
it's qualified by jurisdiction - or everyone's law is changed to agree,
which I pray will never happen. ((a) monocultures are evil; (b) I
still hold some faint hope the `intellectual property' bug will fixed
rather than spread even more widely.)
There is some commonality, under the Berne convention and its ilk, but
mercifully it does not eman the rest of the world has to suffer the
US's perpetual copyright mistake.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6:45 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 Dec 2011 at 21:03, Mouse wrote:
No, it's not contrary, but it betrays her ignorance as a legislator.
To wit, section 8:
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;'
Note the phrase "limited times". I respectfully submit that "in
perpetuity" is not "limited". For a federal legislator to make this
mistake just demonstrates that anyone can get elected to public
office.
Since we were talking about US copyright, I feel secure in that the
period is well-defined, barring global catastrophe. Should that
occur, I doubt that the rights to OS/2 will not even be remotely near
the top of the list of topics to be considered for survival.
--Chuck
A
not-well-known tidbit is that Mary Bono thought that copyrights
should be perpetual. Evidently, she'd not read the US Constitution.
Does it prohibit thinking things should be other than the way they
are? As Fred
observed, you will be long dead by the time the copyright
expires on OS/2.
Actually, that's not really knowable, because that time is
ill-defined. Copyright expiration varies from jurisdiction to
jurisdiction,.
7:16 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
A not-well-known tidbit is that Mary Bono thought that
copyrights
should be perpetual. Evidently, she'd not read the US
Constitution.
Does it prohibit thinking things should be other than the way they
are? 
11:42 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure about
1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any legacy code
from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that copyright should
have expired now - it been 20+ years...
1.2 was the last truly jointly developed version, but 1.3 was the last
jointly-SOLD version (basically all of the new features 1.3 had over
12 were IBM-developed, but MS happily kept selling until they could
get NT out the door.
Mike
11:57 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Dec 2, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Michael Kerpan wrote:
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Jim Scheef <scheefj
at netscape.net> wrote:
Wikipedia has this image of a Microsoft-branded 1.3 disk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MS-OS2-v1.0-diskettes.jpg
Of course, since it's Wikipedia, it's probably actually just a photoshopped image
of a marmoset someone put up for yuks. :-)
- Dave
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure about
1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any legacy code
from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that copyright should
have expired now - it been 20+ years...
1.2 was the last truly jointly developed version, but 1.3 was the last
jointly-SOLD version (basically all of the new features 1.3 had over
12 were IBM-developed, but MS happily kept selling until they could
get NT out the door. 
11:55 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Dec 2, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure about 1.2 or 1.3.
Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any legacy code from the earlier versions
had a joint copyright. Gee, that copyright should have expired now - it been 20+ years...
I think you're maybe thinking of patents? US Copyrights take a lot longer to expire
(and, thanks to various high-stakes interest holders like those that Chuck mentioned,
probably never will at this rate).
- Dave
11:58 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
From: Jim Scheef
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:04 AM
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru
1.1. Not sure
about 1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any
legacy code from the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that
copyright should have expired now - it been 20+ years...
????
US Copyright for "anonymous works, pseudonymous works, and works made
for hire" lasts for 95 years from first publication or 120 years from
creation, whichever comes first, as of 1978.
Come on, people, the relevant portion of the US Copyright code is not
hard to read: http://copyright.gov/title17/ has every chapter in PDF.
See Chapter 3, "Duration of Copyright", Section 302.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
2:55 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Jim Scheef wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure about 1.2
or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any legacy code from
the earlier versions had a joint copyright. Gee, that copyright should have
expired now - it been 20+ years...
AFAIK, Copyright expires 70 (95?) years after the death of the author.
It's a shame Sonny Bono hit that tree AFTER helping pass the copyright
extentions him & Hollings (The honorable Senator from Disney!) got passed.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
3:36 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Gene Buckle wrote:
AFAIK, Copyright expires 70 (95?) years after the
death of the author.
70 years after the death of the author.
For works of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication or 120
years from creation, whichever expires first.
For more detail:
http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
4:34 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Eric Smith wrote:
Gene Buckle wrote:
Either way, it's sickening.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
AFAIK, Copyright expires 70 (95?) years after the
death of the author.
70 years after the death of the author.
For works of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication or 120 years
from creation, whichever expires first.
3 Dec
3 Dec
6:19 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Eric Smith wrote:
Gene Buckle wrote:
Or until Disney Corp. stops purchasing congress-critters. When is Mickey
Mouse coming up to copyright expiration again?
--
AFAIK, Copyright expires 70 (95?) years after the
death of the author.
70 years after the death of the author.
For works of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication or 120 years
from creation, whichever expires first.
2 Dec
2 Dec
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 Dec 2011 at 14:55, Gene Buckle wrote:
AFAIK, Copyright expires 70 (95?) years after the
death of the author.
It's a shame Sonny Bono hit that tree AFTER helping pass the copyright
extentions him & Hollings (The honorable Senator from Disney!) got
passed.
There are some backwaters. For example, works published after 1923
but before 1978 (IIRC) retain their copyright for 95 years. So Mr.
Disney's mouse is safe.
The actual term is probably academic, because as sure as there will
be a tomorrow, the term will always be extended, now that the US
Supreme Court has given its approval to the practice and Mr. Disney's
mouse will forever remain protected.
In other words, as far as we in the US and of this epoch are
concerned, copyright is forever.
--Chuck
6:52 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 December 2011 19:04, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Sam,
I believe the IBM-Microsoft collaboration lasted thru 1.1. Not sure about
1.2 or 1.3. Version 2.0 and later were pure IBM, although any legacy code
from the earlier versions had a joint copyright.
AFAIK, all OS/2 1.x versions were joint products.
OS/2 2.x was IBM alone, but contained lots of MS code, so IBM could
not open-source it or anything.
Gee, that copyright should
have expired now - it been 20+ years...
Ahahahaha!
As an Alan Cox T-shirt I got free from him on Red Hat's UK Geek Day
back in the '90s says:
"US Patent Office: selling monopoly rights to common sense for 205 years."
(Or somewhere in that region.)
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
8:04 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 3 Dec 2011 at 2:52, Liam Proven wrote:
OS/2 2.x was IBM alone, but contained lots of MS code,
so IBM could
not open-source it or anything.
It's worthwhile perusing Section VI of the "OS/2 Notebook" from
Microsoft Press (1990, ISBN 1-55615-316-3) that starts off on the
subject of OS/2 2.0 with an interview with Jim Cannavino and Bill
Gates.
It's not clear who was doing what, although Microsoft appeared to be
involved. Some quotes from Mr. G:
"Microsoft has not changed any of its plans for Windows. It is
obvious that we will not include things like threads and preemptive
multitasking in Windows."
"After mid-1990, Microsoft will ship PM versions of applications at
the same time or before Windows versions. We can see the opportunity
to create much better applications under OS/2."
"The goal for OS/2 is to be the universal operating system,
supporting every application ever done for DOS, the Macintosh, minis,
Unix and Windows."
"OS/2 is our top priority. We are still in boot-strap mode. We have
a very aggressive goal to sell one million units."
FWIW,
Chuck
30 Nov
30 Nov
1:28 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
I have OS/2 1.0 and 1.1 and both are in IBM slipcases.
You need images? I have disks?. -- Ian
On 11/29/11 12:27 PM, "Jim Scheef" <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Did anyone on the list win the Microsoft OS/2 1.1
auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those disks...
Jim
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:47 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Ian,
There are differences between the IBM and Microsoft versions of OS/2
with the networking being the key difference. There was also a 3COM
version of OS/2 that is even more rare than Microsoft's. The 3COM
version uses DIX or "true Ethernet" (with capital E) rather than 802.3.
Most of the code for OS/2 server came from 3COM - it was the contract
with Microsoft that eventually cost Bob Metcalfe his job.
IBM sold LAN Server, Microsoft's was LAN Manager (as in the LANMAN
authentication we still have today). Microsoft's was only sold to OEMs
so most disks say Compaq.
One of the things I want to investigate is the interoperability between
the IBM and Microsoft versions of OS/2, so I need both.
Jim
On 11/30/2011 4:28 PM, Ian King wrote:
I have OS/2 1.0 and 1.1 and both are in IBM
slipcases.
You need images? I have disks?. -- Ian
On 11/29/11 12:27 PM, "Jim Scheef"<scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Did anyone on the list win the Microsoft OS/2 1.1
auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those disks...
Jim
6:58 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 December 2011 19:47, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Ian,
There are differences between the IBM and Microsoft versions of OS/2 with
the networking being the key difference.
I am not sure that this was the case. I think it was just badging -
c.f. MS-DOS versus IBM PC DOS.
There was also a 3COM version of
OS/2 that is even more rare than Microsoft's.
Ha! I was trained in that. Still have the certification somewhere.
3Com 3+Open, the successor to 3+Share.
3+Open was OS/2 1 plus an enhanced version of LAN Manager. It was a
server-only product. Good, but only if you had OS/2 clients.
The 3COM version uses DIX or
"true Ethernet" (with capital E) rather than 802.3. Most of the code for
OS/2 server came from 3COM - it was the contract with Microsoft that
eventually cost Bob Metcalfe his job.
To quote Ben Goldacre's classic T-shirt:
http://badscience2.spreadshirt.co.uk/i-think-you-ll-find-it-s-a-bit-more-wh…
For the graphics-impaired, it says: "I think you'll find it's a bit
more complicated than that."
It's a good answer to almost /any/ asserted fact. :?)
LAN Manager was the IBM/MS networking stack, derived in part from the
IBM PC Network, as was the DOS-based 3Com 3+Share. It doesn't really
matter what the name was, AFAIK - it's always LanMan underneath.
LanMan also ran on VMS and Unix and AFAIK IBM had no hand in those
versions.
AFAIK the relationship between the server editions of OS/2 and the
clients was much the same as NT Workstation versus NT Server: same
core code, but one version is cut-down and the other enhanced.
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
30 Nov
30 Nov
5:54 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 29 November 2011 20:27, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Did anyone on the list win the Microsoft OS/2 1.1
auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those disks...
You might find this useful:
http://vetusware.com/download/os%202%201.0/?id=7257
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.1/?id=5954
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.2/?id=5535
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.30.1/?id=3532
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:49 a.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
Liam,
Thanks for this pointer. Now if I can just get an account on that
system, we might make some progress - assuming the disk images are
really what they claim to be. My bet is they will all be the IBM version.
Jim
On 11/30/2011 8:54 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 29 November 2011 20:27, Jim Scheef<scheefj at
netscape.net> wrote:
Did anyone on the list win the Microsoft OS/2 1.1
auction that closed a
few weeks ago? I would dearly like to get images of those disks...
You might find
this useful:
http://vetusware.com/download/os%202%201.0/?id=7257
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.1/?id=5954
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.2/?id=5535
http://vetusware.com/download/OS2%201.30.1/?id=3532
7 p.m.
New subject: Microsoft OS/2 1.1 on eBay
On 2 December 2011 19:49, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Liam,
Thanks for this pointer. Now if I can just get an account on that system, we
might make some progress - assuming the disk images are really what they
claim to be. My bet is they will all be the IBM version.
Seriously, whereas I don't remember a lot *now*, in the late '80s, I
was Mr OS/2 for my company.
TTBOMK the main difference between IBM OS/2 1.x and MS OS/2 1.x is the
label on the disk and the names on the loading screen.
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
4533
days inactive
4845
days old
28 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
barythrin＠yahoo.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
madcrow.maxwell＠gmail.com -
michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
scheefj＠netscape.net -
snhirsch＠gmail.com