12 Oct
2003
12 Oct
'03
2:39 p.m.
A friend and I are working on building a simple Z80 computer from
scratch. We've got a pretty good start on it so far, but have run into
a little snag - an EPROM programmer. I have an ancient Data I/O Series
22 programmer that I have been attempting to get working. I have the
manual, and I managed to get it to power up. The power supply caps were
limping, but they seem to have reformed while I was playing with it. I
am now able to turn it on and have it come on properly every time. I
can read devices into RAM fine, and I have (I think) successfully
erased an EPROM with the built in UV eraser. (When I read the erased
chip, the checksum is 0000). This programmer has an RS232 port on it,
and I have attempted to connect it to a couple of different things.
First, I tried connecting it to the Linux box in the workshop, and
tried copying the data from ram to the serial port while I had a "cat
/dev/ttyS1 > file" running. This produced no effect, other than a zero
byte file. I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control
the programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the
commands for copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some
feedback on the terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's
readout. So far, I have yet to see a single character come out of that
programmer through the serial port. I know I have the baud rate, parity
and stop bits set correctly. I even tried connecting my even more
ancient Tektronix "doghouse" (German Shepherd sized) 'scope to the
RS232 TX pin, and I haven't gotten a clear reading. Of course, my lack
of a good reading is probably related to my lack of good probes, the
ones I have are quick kludges with some old shielded coax cable, and
are probably the electronic equivalent of pounding nails with a bowling
ball (i.e. it works, kinda).
Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like
this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate
with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic
about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and
receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like
anything I have heard of before. What is the 'standard' method of
transferring data two and from a serial EPROM programmer? Should I be
able to see data on a terminal if I dump the data to the serial port,
or is it in some non-ASCII format that the terminal (and Linux) can't
render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Ian Primus
ian_primus(a)yahoo.com
12 Oct
12 Oct
6:44 p.m.
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote:
I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I
have been
attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it to
power up.
I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to
control the
programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands for
copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on the
terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout.
Does the programmer want hardware flow control?
Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM
programmer like
this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate
with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic
about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and
receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like
anything I have heard of before.
The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to
program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I need
something else for some reason.
What is the 'standard' method of transferring
data two and from a serial
EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump
the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that the
terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would
be appreciated.
There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data to/from
programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on the
host computer.
-Toth
13 Oct
13 Oct
1:04 a.m.
On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 02:44 AM, Tothwolf wrote:
The more I tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware
problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring
voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power
supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently
close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the
specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15 volts is about 14.8
volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and 1489
chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal
(Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from
the looks of the solder and some residual flux on the top of the board,
it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip is
bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from seeing any output,
but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously
functioning. If I feel adventurous later this afternoon, I think I am
going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know
I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that
does any good.
Ian Primus
ian_primus(a)yahoo.com
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote:
The manual indicates that hardware handshaking is an option. I have
tried setting the terminal to "No Xoff", and have used different
cables, including a 4 wire simple hardware handshake-less cable.
I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer
that I have been
attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it
to
power up.
I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able
to control the
programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands
for
copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on
the
terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout.
Does the programmer want hardware flow control? Has anyone had
any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like
this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I
communicate
with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic
about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and
receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like
anything I have heard of before.
The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to
program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I
need
something else for some reason.
What is the 'standard' method of
transferring data two and from a
serial
EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump
the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that
the
terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions
would
be appreciated.
There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data
to/from
programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on
the
host computer.
-Toth 
19 Oct
19 Oct
8 a.m.
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10:10 a.m.
On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I did manage to get the EPROM programmer working the other day, I
should have posted it... sorry. But, thanks for the help, and I'll keep
this email so I have a starting point if it dies again. I ended up
replacing a limping capacitor in the power supply, as well as the 1488.
Now, I am able to read, write and erase EPROM chips just fine (it has a
built in UV lamp). I do still have a major problem, although it isn't
hardware related. I really need 2732 EPROM chips for making Atari 2600
cartridges. I only have one at the moment. I was successful in making a
2732 EPROM cart, a 2764 EPROM multicart (two games on one cart with a
switch to select them), and a partially working 27256 EPROM cart with
three switches to select the games. But, I really would like to be able
to make permanent, single game carts for homebrew titles (currently,
all I have made are test carts with sockets), and the 2732 EPROM is the
easiest thing to deal with when making carts, since I don't have to cut
part of the board to make it fit. I have a very large pile of 27cx321
chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to program
them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the
manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. I can't find
the pinout or any information on these chips anywhere, so I don't know
what they would be equivilent to. Also, I don't know if there is an
updated chart for the Data I/O Series 22, I have version 05 firmware,
but the chart in the manual only goes up to version 02. Data I/O has no
information on this programmer on their web site, other than a message
saying that they no longer support them. Any ideas?
Also, somewhat EPROM programmer related, does anyone know what type of
PROM chips are used in the IBM System/23 Datamaster? I haven't been
able to identify them, the markings seem to be IBM part numbers,
instead of PROM part numbers. I need to replace a bad chip in my
System/23 (see my other post about the System/23). Also, while I'm at
it, I would like to back up the code in the other PROM chips as well
(or at least the ones that are in sockets), if one chip is suffering
The more I
tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware
problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring
voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power
supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently
close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the
Have you checked the supply lines for ripple (using as 'scope)? If not,
do so -- some regulators get confused if there's significant ripple,
and
set the average voltage too low. Of course ripple will cause problems
for
the rest of the circuitry too.
specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15
volts is about 14.8
volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and
1489
chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal
(Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from
The 1488 will work fine at that voltage.
the looks of the solder and some residual flux on
the top of the
board,
it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip
is
Quite possible. Line drivers (and other chips connected to external
connectors) live a hard life, and are often damaged by misconnections
to
said connectors (although the 1488 is generally pretty immune to such
damage) and voltages induced on cables connected to the connectors.
bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from
seeing any output,
but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously
Yes.
functioning. If I feel adventurous later this
afternoon, I think I am
going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know
I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that
does any good.
Trace the data output pin on the RS232 connector back to the 1488. Then
use a 'scope or logic analyser to see if that section of the 1488 gets
any input data (the input is at normal TTL levels, BTW). If it does,
then
the 1488 is faulty. If not, then you've got a problem further back
(either the serial chip is defective, or more likely it's not being
told
to send anything by the programmer's firmware).
Have you looked at the handshake lines at the RS232 connector. I would
start by making sure that all the input handshakes (CTS, DSR, CD on a
DTE
device, for example) are connected to a +ve voltage (if you can find an
output handshake line that's +ve, use that, otherwise use a 9V battery
for testing, +ve termianl to the handshake lines, -ve terminal to
signal
ground). Some devices won't send anything if one of the handshake lines
is deasserted.
-tony from bit rot already, I am concerned about the others
as well. If
anyone else on the list has a working Datamaster with socketed ROM
chips, I would suggest dumping all the ROMs if possible, I know of at
least one other System/23 out there with a bad ROM problem, and there
are likely to be more in the future.
Thanks for your help!
Ian Primus
ian_primus(a)yahoo.com
7736
days inactive
7743
days old
4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net