17 Mar
1998
17 Mar
'98
4:44 p.m.
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For
] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an
] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much
Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above
is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is
again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this
that would lack precision.
OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer?
I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all
of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just
performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with
sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a
calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding.
Bill.
17 Mar
17 Mar
5:13 p.m.
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote:
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For
] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an
] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much
Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above
is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is
again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this
that would lack precision.
Argh, semantics. OK, how about "a binary representation of the *result*
of the expression 1.0/3.0 will always be an approximation." And "an
analog representation of the *result* of the expression 1.0/3.0 *can* be
exact." For example, I could build an analog (i.e, continuous valued)
machine whose ALU performed division by pouring water from one glass into
another (in a loss-free vacuum chamber if you'd like). The glass/water
accululator would be exactly 1/3 full after the above calculation.
Makes you thirsty just thinking about it, doesn't it? :-)
OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program
analog computer?
I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all
of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just
performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with
sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a
calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding.
Wasn't Babbage's engine mechanical? Mechanical computers are still
"digital" in the sense that they compute using discrete values/states.
Here is an example which proves that analog machines can execute stored
programs: "go to the store." If you remembered that and went to the
store, then you just answered your own question. (If you didn't go to the
store, you have a bug. :-)
-- Doug
18 Mar
18 Mar
7:27 a.m.
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17 Mar
17 Mar
5:19 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Bill Yakowenko once stated:
OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer?
I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all
of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just
performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with
sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a
calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding.
Several years ago I had the pleasure of seeing an actual analog computer.
The professor I worked for (a clinical psychologist working in the math
department at the university I attended - it's best not to ask 8-) aquired
it for his research into chaos theory. It was a rather large beast,
something like 8' high, 10' long, 5' deep, weighing on the order of a ton or
two (I don't recall the make or model - it has since been scrapped). Each
program was stored on a board some 5'x4' using patch wires. The board was
the front of the computer and the particular model we had had three boards
that could be "programmed" although only one program was written for it
during the time the professor had it.
Not sure if this fits the bill though.
-spc (Real cool once it worked)
6:35 p.m.
New subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade
My IMSAI-related goodies arrived in the mail today. A Vector Graphic
PROM/RAM board, 36" 26 conductor ribbon cables with connectors
(front-panel cables?), 8 unused 1702A EPROMs, an IMSAI customer service
invoice for 1 MIO Chapter (?), IMSAI Nov 1977 Domestic Price List, and a
May 1976 glossy IMSAI 8080 catalog.
I don't recognize the chips on the PROM/RAM board. There's some 74LS
stuff and 8 2102L1PC. I assume this is static RAM?
I'd like to keep the paper stuff (advice for preservation solicited), but
I don't anticipate getting an IMSAI anytime soon, so any offers for
trades on the board/ROM/cables? Old portable related stuff or just plain
odd-ball stuff preferred.
Thanks,
Doug
18 Mar
18 Mar
7:47 a.m.
New subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade
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1:54 a.m.
New subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade
On 18 Mar 98 at 18:47, Tony Duell wrote:
BTW, I was digging in one of many many bookcases and I
came across a book
called 'The S100 Handbook'. The back of it contains schematics for a
number of classic S100 cards - Imsai, MITS, Vector Graphics, Tarbell,
etc. Quite an interesting read.
Yeah, I've had that for a number of years. Authored by one Dave Bursky
in 1980. Lots of nice pics. architecture and 8080 programming section as
well as the S-100 standards and pinouts.
ciao larry
lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com
3:13 p.m.
New subject: *sigh*
I've been sitting here for fifty minutes trying to figure out how to do
this but there's nothing to figure out.
The simple fact is that I'd rather have all of you like me and want to
talk to me and be my friends (and share your cool computer stories and
helpful advice with me) than to win some silly battle with Sam.
I kept thinking how I could end the thing without losing face. Without
swallowing my pride. But Sam's insane and I'm not. The fact is you
can't out-stubborn the insane.
I won't go into the gory details of my cultural background or my
spiritual beliefs but I have taken on the role of warrior in this
situation with Sam...but the fact is that a true warrior would rather be
defeated and die than to act against his own nature. And mean-spirited
games are not in my nature.
My nature is to explore, to learn and to like people and have them like
me back. And frankly if dropping this fight with Sam (and letting him
THINK he has won) will win the respect of even one of you (or even win
BACK your respect) than I would rather have that than any amount of
respect that I'd lose by either continuing the fight or (for that
matter) simply giving up this battle and letting Sam have the last word.
I'm sure that Sam will gloat and feel all warm and fuzzy that I'm a big
loser for breaking my promise and backing down...
but you know what? I don't care. Sam's a bad person. I don't
care what he thinks. I have a wife, a house, a good job, a loving family
and friends who like being around me. What POSSIBLE difference could the
opinion of some anonymous, faceless nobody make to me?
I only hope that nobody will hold this against me and that I'll win more
respect by doing this than by continuing to fight a battle of wits
against an unarmed man. I will now delete any message from Sam and
ignore him with a fervor and continue having whatever conversations with
the rest of you that you wish to carry on with me.
I guess my promise not to back down was only made to Sam. But my promise
to ignore him I make to EVERYONE else. Who cares if I break my promise
to Sam? There's no dishonor in breaking a promise to one so malicious if
it means the opportunity to keep a beneficial promise to everyone else,
who are intelligent and decent people.
I hope nobody thinks I'm a jerk and hates me. I was only trying to stand
up to a bully but decided it wasn't worth losing friends over. I guess
I'd rather lose to a bully than lose my friends. I hope everyone can
forgive me my foolishness. And, as for Sam, I can't imagine what I could
say that would demonstrate what he really is more than his own words and
actions. I only hope you all can forgive me for letting it go so far.
BTW, should folks like to get together and REASONABLY form a moderation
organization and structure, I will gladly offer mailing list resources at
my ISP for the list without ANY expectation of control over the
moderation or content of the list.
I can only hope that Sam is NEVER permitted to have control of the
mailing list and that that task goes instead to respected individuals,
like Allison or Duell or Willing etc etc. If those of you who have the
authority (Bill Whitson included) to turn over the list to Sam have
discovered what an outrageously bad idea that would be, then I'll feel
that at least some small good has come out of this. Otherwise, I'll just
have to hope that your judgement is better than mine.
At any rate, I'm not leaving the list. Far from it. I intend to
continue posting and talking with those of you who are respectful,
intelligent and worth talking to (all of you minus 1) and hope that
you'll continue to help me with my projects and respect me in general.
But I promise EVERYONE here that all Sam's messages, whether posted to
the list or sent privately to me, will be deleted unread.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
9624
days inactive
9625
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
spc＠armigeron.com -
wirehead＠retrocomputing.com -
yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu -
yowza＠yowza.com