24 Feb
2009
24 Feb
'09
1:14 p.m.
I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of 8" RT-11 floppies he wants
to archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media. Is there anyone in
the Boston area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I
believe these are RX01 media since I think they were created on a
PDT-11/150 that I gave away to someone a few years ago. Can anyone
here help? What would the fee be for such a service?
Thanks!
David Betz
dbetz at xlisper.com
24 Feb
24 Feb
2:36 p.m.
On Tue, 2009-02-24 13:14:06 -0500, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote:
I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of 8"
RT-11 floppies he wants
to archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media. Is there anyone in
the Boston area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I
believe these are RX01 media since I think they were created on a
PDT-11/150 that I gave away to someone a few years ago. Can anyone
here help? What would the fee be for such a service?
I obviously cannot help, but it would be nice if, once it is done,
describe the procedure for others.
Backup is one thing, restoring the image another. A third thing would
be to use that image on some simulator...
MfG, JBG
--
Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481
Signature of: http://perl.plover.com/Questions.html
the second :
2:44 p.m.
On Feb 24, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
I think I would be satisfied just having raw images of the disks.
There is software (even some I've written myself!) that can read those
images.
I have a
friend who has a number (10-20) of 8" RT-11 floppies he
wants
to archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media. Is there anyone in
the Boston area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I
believe these are RX01 media since I think they were created on a
PDT-11/150 that I gave away to someone a few years ago. Can anyone
here help? What would the fee be for such a service?
I obviously cannot help, but it would be nice if, once it is done,
describe the procedure for others.
Backup is one thing, restoring the image another. A third thing would
be to use that image on some simulator... 
2:59 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 11:44 AM, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote:
I think I would be satisfied just having raw images of the disks. There is
software (even some I've written myself!) that can read those images.
Maybe you could use VTServer to copy the disk images from a real
PDP-11 to a PC. I've never tried that and don't know how to go about
trying that.
What I did to backup some RT-11 RX02 floppies was boot a PDP-11 into
2.11BSD and then use dd to read the floppies into image files on the
PDP-11, then used ftp to get the image files from the PDP-11 to a PC.
I also wrote a simple utility to undo the sector interleaving as is
done by rxfactr() in the RX02 driver in 2.11BSD.
I didn't quite get this scheme all working correctly with RX01
floppies yet as the total image size is not a multiple of 512 bytes
and that would take some extra fudging to get right.
2:57 p.m.
I've developed a procedure for this. It's a bit roundabout but it uses easily
available tools.
Tools needed:
- PDP-11 running RT-11, with an extra serial line (SLUx)
- DOS PC with a serial port
- PUTR program from John Wilson
- TU58 emulator, which I found through Will Kranz' website
At a high level the process looks like this:
Install TU58 per its README file. Copy the contents of the floppy onto the emulated TU58
using the COPY/DEVICE command in RT-11. Some versions will gripe at you about the fact
that the floppy may be bigger than the tape. RT-11 v4 seems perfectly happy with that,
and the TU58 program doesn't care. :-) IIRC there are prompts from RT-11 v5, but you
can provide answers that will direct it to do the full copy anyway.
Use PUTR to copy from that tape image onto... whatever you want! PUTR will let you
manipulate the individual files and copy them into DOS directories if you so choose. By
using COPY/DEVICE, you can preserve "bootability" of bootable disks, as well.
I've used the reverse of this process to create physical floppies from disk images as
well as to restore floppies after disk failures. Of course, if you want to burn either
the images or the individual files onto a CDROM, you'll have to have the files on a
machine that supports that device, has burner software, etc. But at that point,
they're just files in a DOS filesystem.
Cheers -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jan-Benedict Glaw
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:37 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Archiving 8" RT-11 floppies to CD-ROM?
On Tue, 2009-02-24 13:14:06 -0500, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com>
wrote:
I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of
8" RT-11 floppies he
wants
to archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media.
Is there anyone in
the Boston area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I
believe these are RX01 media since I think they were created on a
PDT-11/150 that I gave away to someone a few years ago. Can anyone
here help? What would the fee be for such a service?
I obviously cannot help, but it would be nice if, once it is done,
describe the procedure for others.
Backup is one thing, restoring the image another. A third thing would
be to use that image on some simulator...
MfG, JBG
--
Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-
7608481
Signature of:
http://perl.plover.com/Questions.html
the second :
3:04 p.m.
On Feb 24, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Ian King wrote:
I've developed a procedure for this. It's a
bit roundabout but it
uses easily available tools.
Tools needed:
- PDP-11 running RT-11, with an extra serial line (SLUx)
I guess I'd add to this list that the PDP-11 must have a drive that
can read the media to be archived! :-)
The reason I'm asking for help is that I fail on the first
requirement. I don't have a PDP-11 of any sort as I've given away all
that I had to members of this list. At the time I gave them away, I
didn't know about this stash of RT-11 disks. If I had known of it, I
would have done this myself before giving away the required equipment.
So, I'm asking for help from someone who *does* have a PDP-11 with an
RX01 or RX02 drive.
26 Feb
26 Feb
9:26 p.m.
At 02:04 PM 2/24/2009, David Betz wrote:
On Feb 24, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Ian King wrote:
>I've developed a procedure for this. It's a bit roundabout but it
>uses easily available tools.
Depending on how you grab the logical disk image, I have RT-11-extracting tools at:
http://www.threedee.com/jcm/diskutil/index.html
- John
24 Feb
24 Feb
9:57 p.m.
Ian King wrote:
I've developed a procedure for this. It's a
bit roundabout but it uses easily available tools.
Tools needed:
- PDP-11 running RT-11, with an extra serial line (SLUx)
- DOS PC with a serial port
- PUTR program from John Wilson
- TU58 emulator, which I found through Will Kranz' website
At a high level the process looks like this:
Install TU58 per its README file. Copy the contents of the floppy onto the emulated TU58
using the COPY/DEVICE command in RT-11. Some versions will gripe at you about the fact
that the floppy may be bigger than the tape. RT-11 v4 seems perfectly happy with that,
and the TU58 program doesn't care. :-) IIRC there are prompts from RT-11 v5, but you
can provide answers that will direct it to do the full copy anyway.
Use PUTR to copy from that tape image onto... whatever you want! PUTR will let you
manipulate the individual files and copy them into DOS directories if you so choose. By
using COPY/DEVICE, you can preserve "bootability" of bootable disks, as well.
I've used the reverse of this process to create physical floppies from disk images as
well as to restore floppies after disk failures. Of course, if you want to burn either
the images or the individual files onto a CDROM, you'll have to have the files on a
machine that supports that device, has burner software, etc. But at that point,
they're just files in a DOS filesystem.
Jerome Fine replies:
While my approach is basically the same, it does rely on a SCSI host
adapter for
both the PDP-11 and the PC. Since I happen to have both (CQD 220/TM for
the PDP-11 and an Adaptec AHA 2940AU for the PC running W98SE) along
with a Sony SMO S-501 with a few optical media, the process for me was
quite simple. I also have access to E11 which is able to:
MOUNT DU0: SCSIn:
which allows me to access the RT-11 partition under RT-11.
(a) Either an RX01 or an RX02 floppy drive can read RX01 (SSSD media) on
the PDP-11. I use RT-11 to directly:
COPY/DEVICE/FILES DY0: DU0:foobar.DSK
Each of the 8 RT-11 partitions on the optical media can hold far more
than 20 RX01
file images of 498 blocks.
On the PC side run RT-11 under E11 after the E11 commands:
MOUNT DU0; SCSIn:
MOUNT DU1: C:pcfile.DSK
Then under RT-11:
COPY/DEVICE DU0: DU1:
After that, the easiest way is to use PUTR to:
MOUNT DU1: C:pcfile.DSK
COPY DU1:*.* C:*.*
and all of the RX01 file images are copied to the PC hard drive. It is
than an easy
step to use a CDROM burner program to copy the RX01 file images to a CD.
Under both PUTR and E11, any of the RX01 file images may be mounted. I know
that PUTR can understand the RT-11 file structure. Under E11, any PDP-11
operating system can be run to look at the RX01 file images.
Since my method depends on a host adapter on both the PDP-11 and the PC
along with a removable SCSI media drive, this will not be the method that
everyone can use.
If there are any questions, please ask.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
>bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jan-Benedict Glaw
>Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:37 AM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: Archiving 8" RT-11 floppies to CD-ROM?
>
>On Tue, 2009-02-24 13:14:06 -0500, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of 8" RT-11 floppies he
>>
>>
>wants
>
>
>>to archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media. Is there anyone in
>>the Boston area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I
>>believe these are RX01 media since I think they were created on a
>>PDT-11/150 that I gave away to someone a few years ago. Can anyone
>>here help? What would the fee be for such a service?
>>
>>
>I obviously cannot help, but it would be nice if, once it is done,
>describe the procedure for others.
>
>Backup is one thing, restoring the image another. A third thing would
>be to use that image on some simulator...
>
>MfG, JBG
>
>--
> Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-
>7608481
> Signature of:
>http://perl.plover.com/Questions.html
> the second :
>
3:12 p.m.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, David Betz wrote:
I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of 8"
RT-11 floppies he wants to
archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media. Is there anyone in the Boston
area (he lives in Medway) who could help with this? I believe these are RX01
media since I think they were created on a PDT-11/150 that I gave away to
someone a few years ago. Can anyone here help? What would the fee be for such
a service?
Personally I'd probably use one of the following:
MicroVAX III running VMS with a 8" drive capable of physically reading the
floppies
OR
PDP-11 running RSX-11M+ with a 8" drive capable of physically reading the
floppies
Sadly both such boxes of mine are in storage and my two sets of RX02 drives
are questionable. I've never even tried to power on my PDT-11/150.
Basically you do a MOUNT/FORIEGN on the floppies, and copy them to a disk
file. You can do something simular in RT-11, but I've not used it. The
same general principle works for Floppies, diskpacks, HD's and mag tapes.
Both for reading to, and writing out to.
Zane
4:15 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, David Betz wrote:
I've never put an RXV11 or RXV21 into a MicroVAX, only into a PDP-11.
There is an RX driver for VMS, but the only place I've seen that used
is with an 11/750, and there's obviously no issue with an 18-bit
Unibus card in either a PDP-11 or an old VAX.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I've certainly never seen 8"
floppies on a Qbus VAX. Electrically, there's no problem. It'd be a
driver issue, if any. If one has access to the driver sources, one
could check for 22-bit buffer support (or is the RXV11 non-DMA? I
can't remember now. If it doesn't need a DMA buffer, it would be a
non-issue for Qbus support. The Unibus driver should work the Qbus
card, too, through the CSR and the other card registers).
I have a friend who has a number (10-20) of
8" RT-11 floppies he wants to
archive to CD-ROM or some other modern media...
Personally I'd probably use one of the following:
MicroVAX III running VMS with a 8" drive capable of physically reading the
floppies
?OR
PDP-11 running RSX-11M+ with a 8" drive capable of physically reading the
floppies Basically you do a MOUNT/FORIEGN on the floppies, and
copy them to a disk
file. ?You can do something simular in RT-11, but I've not used it. ?The
same general principle works for Floppies, diskpacks, HD's and mag tapes.
Both for reading to, and writing out to.
Right. I've done that sort of things lots for backing up TU58s and
RL02 disks with EXCHANGE. The VAX doesn't have to know or care how
the media is laid out. BACKUP/PHYSICAL to a file should also work.
You'll get a wad of blocks that could be easily read in another
machine or fed to simh.
-ethan
5628
days inactive
5631
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
dbetz＠xlisper.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jbglaw＠lug-owl.de -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to