28 Oct
2001
28 Oct
'01
4:46 a.m.
Hi,
I usually hate organizational issues, but I think us VAX collectors
need at least a semi-formal organizaton. Why?
- Most importantly this could help convince those that either
decomission or scrap VAX hardware to give it away instead.
(Yes, the last wave of decommissioned VAX 6000-600 and
7000/10000 is coming up, plus the tail of older models that
might occasionally still be in use.) Also think of all the
overpriced DEC hardware suppliers who soon have to get rid
of their stocks that no business customer needs anymore.
- Second this would give one point where we could organize trades
and consolidate shipment issues ("VAX trecks")
- It could help us negotiate good truck rental rates. Penske has
perhaps the best rate you can get, but not everyone gets the best
rate (i.e. 10 cents per mile) because that's for business customers
only, normally. But usually with an organization (and a little ad
on the web-site) you can get good deals on vehicle rentals.
And it goes on.
- We could promote semi-public collections like little private museums
that some of us are building.
- Finally it could help in right out fundraising for covering such
expenses as electricity and internet connectivity for cyber-
museums and public use VAXen.
We don't have to start all over but can take something that already
exists. (I'm also not looking to become a chairman of anything,
one of the typical incentives for people suggesting new organizations :-)
For example, I think this can start with a web site. Some of us already
have vax related domain names which we can use, like Isildur's
vaxpower.org. So, a www.vaxpower.org could be it. There's also the
VAX rescue squad, put in my several futile attempts to sign up
I realized that this project seems rather dead. I don't know if this
should be anything tightly connected with DECUS, because DECUS is
(a) too COMPAQ or whatever.com oriented, (b) too VMS oriented, and
(c) seems to have too much overhead (organizational structure,
membership fees, unrelated agenda items). But I could be wrong
about that.
Another question is if this should not be a DEC/VAX only group
but rather a vintage computer stuff group, like Sellam Ismail's
site. May be this could be it. What's important is that this site
would help accomplish above-mentioned goals, and that it would
be a showcase of our VAX collections and simply an address book
of the kind that the VAX rescue squad wanted to be. Something you
can point to when negotiating with a source. A network of friends
you can call up and ask for help in rescuing someting in an
otherwise remote area. Also a set of rules of conduct dealing with
shared hauls, (like what if: you agree to help with a haul from
a friend accross the country and agree on keeping certain things,
but suddenly a PDP-8 shows up in that lot? These are things that
could help maintain friendship and integrity and reduce grief.)
So, what do you think?
regards
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
28 Oct
28 Oct
5:02 a.m.
hello,
I think itas a pretty cool idea. Probably the most 'organization' like
thing this really would need that it doesnt have just from this list, the
classiccmp list, comp.sys.dec, comp.os.vms, and a few other newsgroups, is
a non-profit to allow companies who might have reluctance giving away
old hardware to feel a little better about it. Now, forming a nonprofit
corporation actually costs money, as does maintaining it. DE incorporations
afaik run about $500, and then one would probably need an accountant every
year for tax time to make sure everything is in order, which could probably
cost about $100 a year. Thats more than i think any individual here is
willing to shoulder... I will be soon putting up on a faster network
www.vaxpower.org, which is for now still on a slow home network, and will put
up some vax-ish page at that point, with links (or mirrors) of most of the
other vax related pages i know of. I'd be glad to host a vax-dedicated
or just retro iron oriented page there as well. (for folks who have heard
me say for a while that im moving the main vaxpower machine to the faster
network, ive had some trouble along the way.. its actually a pmax box, but
originally i tried to get an ultrix install that had AFS 3.2 support to
work in the newer AFS environment that the machine will find itself. no
dice. NetBSD 1.4something was not as stable as i'd like it to be on the
machine (its a ds5000/260), and im going back to ultrix, forget afs for now,
and ill try hacking on arla when time permits. im making the boot disk
right now. sorry for the delay!)
To be more politically correct, i could host it on a vax, too..
Back to the point, i think as long as people keep their eyes open, coordinate
our own finds and vax treks with anyone else on the list who might be
rescuing an old machine (for example i'm giving a home to a lisp machine
next weekend) (it's much smaller than a vax 6000, gunther- once i find
my next house ill come looking for a 6k though! :) , and perhaps if we post
to a few groups that if they have old hardware that needs a home, to tell us
about it or go to www.vaxpower.org or something.. basically get a name and
a simple url to get around as the place to look when youre ready to toss some
old iron. Somebody (if enough people keep bugging me, i'd help, but i'm
likely to procrastinate on it) also should send letters, perhaps on
paper, to the various computer museums, resellers, etc, around the
country, just to let them know that when they have something they want
taken off their hands, that we're probably willing to take it.. also , for
the museums, etc, which often have public funding, we might even (if wehad
a nonprofit) solicit some funding ourselves for preservation. There is a ton
of money being wasted on this sort of thing, so with enough diligance and
some luck i think there could even be some support for such a venture.
happy hacking,
isildur
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Hi,
I usually hate organizational issues, but I think us VAX collectors
need at least a semi-formal organizaton. Why?
- Most importantly this could help convince those that either
decomission or scrap VAX hardware to give it away instead.
(Yes, the last wave of decommissioned VAX 6000-600 and
7000/10000 is coming up, plus the tail of older models that
might occasionally still be in use.) Also think of all the
overpriced DEC hardware suppliers who soon have to get rid
of their stocks that no business customer needs anymore.
- Second this would give one point where we could organize trades
and consolidate shipment issues ("VAX trecks")
- It could help us negotiate good truck rental rates. Penske has
perhaps the best rate you can get, but not everyone gets the best
rate (i.e. 10 cents per mile) because that's for business customers
only, normally. But usually with an organization (and a little ad
on the web-site) you can get good deals on vehicle rentals.
And it goes on.
- We could promote semi-public collections like little private museums
that some of us are building.
- Finally it could help in right out fundraising for covering such
expenses as electricity and internet connectivity for cyber-
museums and public use VAXen.
We don't have to start all over but can take something that already
exists. (I'm also not looking to become a chairman of anything,
one of the typical incentives for people suggesting new organizations :-)
For example, I think this can start with a web site. Some of us already
have vax related domain names which we can use, like Isildur's
vaxpower.org. So, a www.vaxpower.org could be it. There's also the
VAX rescue squad, put in my several futile attempts to sign up
I realized that this project seems rather dead. I don't know if this
should be anything tightly connected with DECUS, because DECUS is
(a) too COMPAQ or whatever.com oriented, (b) too VMS oriented, and
(c) seems to have too much overhead (organizational structure,
membership fees, unrelated agenda items). But I could be wrong
about that.
Another question is if this should not be a DEC/VAX only group
but rather a vintage computer stuff group, like Sellam Ismail's
site. May be this could be it. What's important is that this site
would help accomplish above-mentioned goals, and that it would
be a showcase of our VAX collections and simply an address book
of the kind that the VAX rescue squad wanted to be. Something you
can point to when negotiating with a source. A network of friends
you can call up and ask for help in rescuing someting in an
otherwise remote area. Also a set of rules of conduct dealing with
shared hauls, (like what if: you agree to help with a haul from
a friend accross the country and agree on keeping certain things,
but suddenly a PDP-8 shows up in that lot? These are things that
could help maintain friendship and integrity and reduce grief.)
So, what do you think?
regards
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
5:24 a.m.
So, a www.vaxpower.org could be it.
Maybe so, but the www site right now seems to be run by a
crazyman. All it says is "The city of Umbar was built in the
Second Age by Numenorean voyagers." Absurdly Obtuse!
John A.
5:45 a.m.
I usually hate organizational issues, but I think us
VAX collectors
need at least a semi-formal organizaton. Why?
...
- Second this would give one point where we could organize trades
and consolidate shipment issues ("VAX trecks")
...
Well, I already have the DEC Enthusiasts Club board set up. We
could use that for discussions. It isn't really that active
right now, but that can change if we start to use it more. I
have discussion and for sale/trade boards already set up and
working.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
8:53 a.m.
Well, I already have the DEC Enthusiasts Club board set up. We
could use that for discussions. It isn't really that active
right now, but that can change if we start to use it more. I
have discussion and for sale/trade boards already set up and
working.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
This is a very well done site and I only regret that it is not linked to
netbsd-vax and linux-vax.And vice versa. It should also link to chuck's
excellent site.
The disappointing sites are Compaq, decus and freevms.
A little brush-up and we have a very fine Dachorganisation for vax
collectors.
fred
10:36 a.m.
Well, I already have the DEC Enthusiasts Club board
set up. We
could use that for discussions. It isn't really that active
right now, but that can change if we start to use it more. I
have discussion and for sale/trade boards already set up and
working.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
This is a very well done site and I only regret that it is not linked to
netbsd-vax and linux-vax.And vice versa. It should also link to chuck's
excellent site.
The disappointing sites are Compaq, decus and freevms.
A little brush-up and we have a very fine Dachorganisation for vax
collectors.
I will add the links to any sites that people feel are appropriate to
my site. I'm also going to register a domain name that will be pointed
directly to the site.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
10:02 a.m.
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Hi,
I usually hate organizational issues, but I think us VAX collectors
need at least a semi-formal organizaton. Why?
- Most importantly this could help convince those that either
decomission or scrap VAX hardware to give it away instead.
(Yes, the last wave of decommissioned VAX 6000-600 and
7000/10000 is coming up, plus the tail of older models that
might occasionally still be in use.) Also think of all the
overpriced DEC hardware suppliers who soon have to get rid
of their stocks that no business customer needs anymore.
We would have to gain a lot of credibility as an organization, before we
could do this.
- Second this would give one point where we could
organize trades
and consolidate shipment issues ("VAX trecks")
Well, I think this list does a lot of that.
- It could help us negotiate good truck rental rates.
Penske has
perhaps the best rate you can get, but not everyone gets the best
rate (i.e. 10 cents per mile) because that's for business customers
only, normally. But usually with an organization (and a little ad
on the web-site) you can get good deals on vehicle rentals.
We have to get free mileage. 8-)
And it goes on.
- We could promote semi-public collections like little private museums
that some of us are building.
This could be neat. Even those of us that use our collections for shits
and grins could arrange for tours of our datacenters.
- Finally it could help in right out fundraising for
covering such
expenses as electricity and internet connectivity for cyber-
museums and public use VAXen.
Dues could be used for this purpose too.
We don't have to start all over but can take
something that already
exists. (I'm also not looking to become a chairman of anything,
one of the typical incentives for people suggesting new organizations :-)
For example, I think this can start with a web site. Some of us already
have vax related domain names which we can use, like Isildur's
vaxpower.org. So, a www.vaxpower.org could be it. There's also the
VAX rescue squad, put in my several futile attempts to sign up
I realized that this project seems rather dead. I don't know if this
should be anything tightly connected with DECUS, because DECUS is
(a) too COMPAQ or whatever.com oriented, (b) too VMS oriented, and
(c) seems to have too much overhead (organizational structure,
membership fees, unrelated agenda items). But I could be wrong
about that.
I don't think it should be too tightly paired with DECUS, but for a
different reason. A lot of DECUS isn't hobbyists.
Another question is if this should not be a DEC/VAX
only group
but rather a vintage computer stuff group, like Sellam Ismail's
site. May be this could be it. What's important is that this site
would help accomplish above-mentioned goals, and that it would
be a showcase of our VAX collections and simply an address book
of the kind that the VAX rescue squad wanted to be. Something you
can point to when negotiating with a source. A network of friends
you can call up and ask for help in rescuing someting in an
otherwise remote area. Also a set of rules of conduct dealing with
shared hauls, (like what if: you agree to help with a haul from
a friend accross the country and agree on keeping certain things,
but suddenly a PDP-8 shows up in that lot? These are things that
could help maintain friendship and integrity and reduce grief.)
This sounds good. I might even be able to scrape some warehouse space
together in case a situation like the following came up: Suppose you got
a big load of stuff, and the guy offers to throw in a whole load more
stuff in for free, but you don't have the room. He wants the answer right
away, so this warehouse sits there as temporary storage for you, so you
can feel free to say yes. Then anyone who belongs to the organization who
wants the hardware can take it. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
So, what do you think?
29 Oct
29 Oct
5:01 p.m.
New subject: An Organization (was: Do we have a VAX organization?)
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote:
I think this can start with a web site. [...]
Another question is if this should not be a DEC/VAX only group but
rather a vintage computer stuff group, like Sellam Ismail's site.
I think that what is needed most is an international organization that
covers *all* vintage computers, software, and docs. We need something
that's implemented well enough that most of us would be convinced to join.
The best starting point I can think of is Sellam's VCF organization:
* He already has one of the largest inventories of us all. That's a good
start towards a "Noah's ark" collection, which I think should be one
function of the organization.
* He's got www.vintage.org, which would be a primo domain name for the
organization.
* He's got www.vintagetech.com, which would be the fundraising part of the
organization. Dues could be another.
* He's got experience running VCFs.
Of course, Sellam would have to be interested in being the organization's
fearless leader!
Other things the organiztion could do:
* A central, Yahoo-like web site that would become the world's foremost
resource for vintage computer information. It would try to replicate
all available information for preservation. Individual members would
also be given a mechanism to have their collection hosted on the site
under a uniform interface. Those who resist assimilation could still
have their sites linked to. You could get to info either by
collector name or a category/manufacturer/series/model tree. It would
be wonderful...
* SIGs would, of course, solidify according to demand. I imagine the VAX
SIG (VSIG?) would be quite well represented. Each SIG could have its
own mailing list. The whole thing would be not unlike the FreeBSD
mailing list system.
* Rename itself from VCF to IVCA. "International Vintage Computing
Association" to outsiders, "International Vintage Computing Asylum"
for insiders. :-)
* I don't know... other stuff.
As you can see, I'm all about grandiose ideas. Now won't someone rise up
and implement them? :-)
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
8454
days inactive
8456
days old
7 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
allain＠panix.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
fdebros＠verizon.net -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
jss＠subatomix.com -
mrfusion＠umbar.vaxpower.org -
vance＠ikickass.org