Chuck Guzis wrote: Exactly, one and the same. When I was in high school back in 67-71 in the northern Chicago suburbs (same high school as John Hughes attended BTW; I was a freshman when he was a senior) a bunch of us made weekend trips down to Chicago's IIT (Illinois Institute of Technology) for their programming classes to learn programming in 'IITRAN' (a variation of Fortran designed mainly for teaching). Ron Hochsprung was one of the implementors of the IITRAN interpreter system (it first ran on a 360/40 and later on a Univac 1108). Later our school got RJE access via phone lines; we punched programs offline on papertape, and then later they were run and the printed results returned. A little better than punching cards and waiting for line printer results (but not by much). Anyway, after high school I went off to MIT, then worked for DEC in Maynard for 7 years. In 1982 I jumped cross country, seeing DEC ignoring the personal computer industry. I went to work for Apple, and lo and behold, Ron Hochsprung is there at Apple. Small world, indeed. I spent 15 years at Apple. My suspicion is Ron is probably still there. Don North