22 Feb
2010
22 Feb
'10
11:42 a.m.
On 22 Feb 2010, at 18:00, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:19 +0000
From: Colin Eby <ceby2 at csc.com>
Subject: Re: Tubes & Computers of Olden Days
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:
<OF71E503B7.7C3067C5-ON802576D2.003F9F40-802576D2.00409310 at csc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I'm rather surprised this thread hasn't brought up what has to be the most
complete, working order, and fully programmable of the remaining tube
machines. There are a couple of interesting systems in the process of
restoration, but for my money, the best of the running examples is the
Science Museum's (London's) Ferranti Pegasus. Unlike the Collosus replica,
this is an actual relic, and recognizably a programmable computer in the
modern sense. The Colossus and most of the later small systems are
pegboard programmed and therefore cannot alter their instructions in
flight. That Ferranti is demo'd regularly (though I never seem to be around
on the right day). I'm sure everyone can do their own Googling, but it a
pretty complete setup. I keep a loving photo of it in my office cubicle.
Thanks,
Colin Eby
Technical Architect
NR Performance Engineering
CSC
I think you were right, and I hope you will be again, but last thing I heard was there had
been an incident and it was shut down awaiting a health and safety review. If my memory
serves me right some twit reported the blown fuse had asbestos in it. I expect most of the
steam boilers in the building do too. We've gone health and safety mad, but when I
reported someone had fly tipped a load of asbestos on a country verge the council
collected 75% of it and left the rest behind and now some of it has got driven over and is
being pulverised into the mud.
Roger Holmes,
Computer Conservation Society and 1301 working party member
23 Feb
23 Feb
6:53 a.m.
From: roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk
----snip---
I think you were right, and I hope you will be again, but last thing I heard was there
had been an incident and it was shut down awaiting a health and safety review. If my
memory serves me right some twit reported the blown fuse had asbestos in it. I expect most
of the steam boilers in the building do too. We've gone health and safety mad, but
when I reported someone had fly tipped a load of asbestos on a country verge the council
collected 75% of it and left the rest behind and now some of it has got driven over and is
being pulverised into the mud.
Roger Holmes,
Computer Conservation Society and 1301 working party member
Hi
While I don't deny that asbestos can be a health problem, I think that they have gone
overboard in not understanding in what forms it is dangerous to be around.
I know of two counter examples:
1. When they used to use asbestos in brake linings for cars, people that
did brake repair showed no increase in asbestos caused deseases.
2. In California, there is a county, El Dorado I beleave, that has many exposed
vains of natural asbestos and large amounts of asbestos dust in the soils. It
also has little increase in asbestos related illness.
What I'd like to know is what forms of asbestos are actually a hazard and
what forms are not.
I had a friend whos father owned a Bear Brake Service. In the evening, he'd
come home covered in brake dust ( this was before asbestos was generally
known to cause problems ). He lived to be over 80.
I do wish they could find out exactly what it is that is the problem.
We have so over reacted here. There are other materials almost as
bad if not worse. Fine glass dust kills many that work in the lense and
mirror making fields. They don't get canser but they are dead, just the same.
Dwight
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10:12 a.m.
On 23 Feb 2010 at 6:53, dwight elvey wrote:
While I don't deny that asbestos can be a health
problem, I think that
they have gone overboard in not understanding in what forms it is
dangerous to be around.
I know of two counter examples:
1. When they used to use asbestos in brake linings for cars, people
that did brake repair showed no increase in asbestos caused deseases.
2. In California, there is a county, El Dorado I beleave, that has many
exposed vains of natural asbestos and large amounts of asbestos
dust in the soils. It also has little increase in asbestos related illness.
I once saw a study that posited that the fiber size of the material
had a strong influence on the causation of asbestosis and
mesothelioma. In particular, imported asbestos seemed to have a
higher rate of health issues.
A friend grew up in Libby, Montana (vermiculite mining by W.R. Grace)
and several members of her family suffer from asbestosis.
So the danger is real.
But the stuff was everywhere in the steel mills and I'm not aware of
anyone in my own family (including me) who worked in the mills who
contracted asbestosis.
--Chuck
10:21 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:12 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Tubes & Computers of Olden Days
On 23 Feb 2010 at 6:53, dwight elvey wrote:
My wife used to do asbestos monitoring for mitigation work, so I know a bit about this.
The primary metric is the 'friability' of the asbestos - in other words, how
likely it is to break into tiny pieces and embed itself in your lungs. As Chuck states,
there are various forms of asbestos (which is a naturally occurring mineral), each with
its own friability. Further, the manner in which the asbestos has been treated or formed
into artifacts impacts its friability. Aging can be a factor, too: items that were
perfectly safe when new may now be hazardous. It really is a case-by-case question when
dealing with worked asbestos, i.e. in products.
I agree that a simple knee-jerk reaction to asbestos is silly - but that's how
legislators most often write laws. (Unless stakeholders are there to help them understand
the facts.) -- Ian
While I don't deny that asbestos can be a
health problem, I think
that
they have gone overboard in not understanding in
what forms it is
dangerous to be around.
I know of two counter examples:
1. When they used to use asbestos in brake linings for cars, people
that did brake repair showed no increase in asbestos caused deseases.
2. In California, there is a county, El Dorado I beleave, that has
many
exposed vains of natural asbestos and large
amounts of asbestos
dust in the soils. It also has little increase in asbestos related
illness.
I once saw a study that posited that the fiber size of the material
had a strong influence on the causation of asbestosis and
mesothelioma. In particular, imported asbestos seemed to have a
higher rate of health issues.
A friend grew up in Libby, Montana (vermiculite mining by W.R. Grace)
and several members of her family suffer from asbestosis.
So the danger is real.
But the stuff was everywhere in the steel mills and I'm not aware of
anyone in my own family (including me) who worked in the mills who
contracted asbestosis.
--Chuck
11:16 a.m.
From: IanK at vulcan.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:21:41 -0800
Subject: RE: Tubes & Computers of Olden Days
Hi
It is interesting that some resent research I've seen seems to indicate the the
danger goes up as
the size of the particle goes down. In other words the tiniest particles are actually the
most
dangerous and also the hardest to filter out.
Dwight
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http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:12 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Tubes & Computers of Olden Days
On 23 Feb 2010 at 6:53, dwight elvey wrote:
My wife used to do asbestos monitoring for mitigation work, so I know a bit about this.
The primary metric is the 'friability' of the asbestos - in other words, how
likely it is to break into tiny pieces and embed itself in your lungs. As Chuck states,
there are various forms of asbestos (which is a naturally occurring mineral), each with
its own friability. Further, the manner in which the asbestos has been treated or formed
into artifacts impacts its friability. Aging can be a factor, too: items that were
perfectly safe when new may now be hazardous. It really is a case-by-case question when
dealing with worked asbestos, i.e. in products.
I agree that a simple knee-jerk reaction to asbestos is silly - but that's how
legislators most often write laws. (Unless stakeholders are there to help them understand
the facts.) -- Ian While I don't deny that asbestos can be a
health problem, I think
that
they have gone overboard in not understanding in
what forms it is
dangerous to be around.
I know of two counter examples:
1. When they used to use asbestos in brake linings for cars, people
that did brake repair showed no increase in asbestos caused deseases.
2. In California, there is a county, El Dorado I beleave, that has
many
exposed vains of natural asbestos and large
amounts of asbestos
dust in the soils. It also has little increase in asbestos related
illness.
I once saw a study that posited that the fiber size of the material
had a strong influence on the causation of asbestosis and
mesothelioma. In particular, imported asbestos seemed to have a
higher rate of health issues.
A friend grew up in Libby, Montana (vermiculite mining by W.R. Grace)
and several members of her family suffer from asbestosis.
So the danger is real.
But the stuff was everywhere in the steel mills and I'm not aware of
anyone in my own family (including me) who worked in the mills who
contracted asbestosis.
--Chuck
5733
days inactive
5734
days old
4 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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cclist＠sydex.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk