19 Oct
2019
19 Oct
'19
11:02 a.m.
Hi!
I saw this crop up on twitter and now I?m curious. Anyone familiar with
these? Any idea what the backend was?
https://twitter.com/newsfedora/status/1154813199054712833?s=21
--
-Jon
+44 7792 149029
19 Oct
19 Oct
11:23 a.m.
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. There were
various field trials of such systems around that era.? We had one in
Toronto's Eaton Centre - it was based on NAPLPS, and used a PDP11/23.?
There was a lot of Canadian Government money put into research to
promote he Canadian vector-based protocol, claimed to be more efficient
than the European alpha-mosaic ones.? Ours ran at 1200/150(?) baud.
Research was done at a Bell Canada site on Carlingview Avenue in Ottawa
under some sort of sub-contract.?? They used Able DMAXes on an 11/70
which had a pot to adjust the 150 baud clock.? They actually flew me up
from Toronto, with a scope, to adjust that pot, since
everybody there
was hands-off this external stuff.
It may have had a future if HTTP and the internet were not just around
the corner:-)
One of the big players in Canada was Infomart, where I installed a bunch
of kit on PDP11s, just around the corner from where I now live in Toronto.
cheers,
Nigel
On 19/10/2019 14:02, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:
Hi!
I saw this crop up on twitter and now I?m curious. Anyone familiar with
these? Any idea what the backend was?
https://twitter.com/newsfedora/status/1154813199054712833?s=21
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this
message
11:35 a.m.
On 10/19/2019 12:23 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. There were
various field trials of such systems around that era.? We had one in
Toronto's Eaton Centre - it was based on NAPLPS, and used a PDP11/23.
There was a lot of Canadian Government money put into research to
promote he Canadian vector-based protocol, claimed to be more efficient
than the European alpha-mosaic ones.? Ours ran at 1200/150(?) baud.
Research was done at a Bell Canada site on Carlingview Avenue in Ottawa
under some sort of sub-contract.?? They used Able DMAXes on an 11/70
which had a pot to adjust the 150 baud clock.? They actually flew me up
from Toronto, with a scope, to adjust that pot, since everybody there
was hands-off this external stuff.
It may have had a future if HTTP and the internet were not just around
the corner:-)
Well I think Hook up up to your TV and slower than hell cheap decoders
killed the NAPLPS rather than the internet is comming.
Ben.
11:46 a.m.
Are you sure it wasn't the massive over-funding by government that
killed it?
On 19/10/2019 14:35, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 10/19/2019 12:23 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk
wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. There were
various field trials of such systems around that era.? We had one in
Toronto's Eaton Centre - it was based on NAPLPS, and used a PDP11/23.
There was a lot of Canadian Government money put into research to
promote he Canadian vector-based protocol, claimed to be more
efficient than the European alpha-mosaic ones.? Ours ran at
1200/150(?) baud.
Research was done at a Bell Canada site on Carlingview Avenue in
Ottawa under some sort of sub-contract.?? They used Able DMAXes on an
11/70 which had a pot to adjust the 150 baud clock.? They actually
flew me up from Toronto, with a scope, to adjust that pot, since
everybody there was hands-off this external stuff.
It may have had a future if HTTP and the internet were not just
around the corner:-)
Well I think Hook up up to your TV and slower than? hell cheap decoders
killed the NAPLPS rather than the internet is comming.
Ben.
20 Oct
20 Oct
3:43 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
9:14 a.m.
It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in
Canada.? People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was
better than yours?
cheers,
Nigel
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel
Johnson via cctalk wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different
on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
9:51 a.m.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 12:14:53PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
It was called teletext despite the implications, at
least here in
Canada.? People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
More widely known as Telidon despite it being called NAPLPS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telidon
Friend of mine worked at one of the commercial companies (NORPAK) doing it.
Incidentally, they used a lot of 6809 systems running OS-9.
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was
better than yours?
cheers,
Nigel
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel
Johnson via cctalk wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you,
it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different
on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
12:09 p.m.
On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]
> It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
> of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
> graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
> appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
> character generator chip.
>
> The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
It was called teletext despite the implications, at
least here in Canada. People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was better than yours?
For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with display
examples:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html
(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)
Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol was such as to
permit a range of compatible implementations.)
While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a Telidon/NAPLPS
terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II (or similar) as others
mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone unit. I think using a
videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would have been awkward and the economics poor,
there'd either have to be a rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local
server, or storage hacked onto the terminal.
The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported in a proprietary
manner I'm not aware of explicit support for touch-screens in the protocol.
I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard) came rather late in
the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for a dying project. As "Telidon",
it had begun years earlier.
12:20 p.m.
As an FYI, the YouTube comments description of the system is:
"Published on Oct 19, 2019
10/9/1985: Farm Fresh grocery stores unveil new cutting-edge technology: store kiosks that
help shoppers map out where to find items in their stores. The kiosks appear to be running
Apple II software."
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 20, 2019, at 12:10, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in Canada. People just
couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was better than yours?
For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with display
examples:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html
(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)
Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol was such as to
permit a range of compatible implementations.)
While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a Telidon/NAPLPS
terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II (or similar) as others
mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone unit. I think using a
videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would have been awkward and the economics poor,
there'd either have to be a rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local
server, or storage hacked onto the terminal.
The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported in a proprietary
manner I'm not aware of explicit support for touch-screens in the protocol.
I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard) came rather late in
the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for a dying project. As "Telidon",
it had begun years earlier.
1:13 p.m.
You are absolutely right about the economics! The only one I ever saw in
operation was in the Eaton Centre in Toronto, just around the corner
from the Bell Simcoe office where I worked on the
server!
cheers,
Nigel
On 20/10/2019 15:20, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
As an FYI, the YouTube comments description of the
system is:
"Published on Oct 19, 2019
10/9/1985: Farm Fresh grocery stores unveil new cutting-edge technology: store kiosks
that help shoppers map out where to find items in their stores. The kiosks appear to be
running Apple II software."
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 20, 2019, at 12:10, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in Canada. People just
couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was better than yours?
For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with display
examples:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html
(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)
Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol was such as to
permit a range of compatible implementations.)
While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a Telidon/NAPLPS
terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II (or similar) as others
mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone unit. I think using a
videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would have been awkward and the economics poor,
there'd either have to be a rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local
server, or storage hacked onto the terminal.
The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported in a proprietary
manner I'm not aware of explicit support for touch-screens in the protocol.
I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard) came rather late
in the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for a dying project. As
"Telidon", it had begun years earlier.
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
12:47 p.m.
You are probably right about the 6809, the stuff I worked on was all in
the development stages for the project, and at the server end.? I did
field engineering for Transduction, and we supplied equipment to Norpak,
although I can't for the life of me remember what!? I remember going to
visit their headquarters in Pakenham and was surprised to find it was a
set of farm outbuildings!? That was the NORton family of PAKenham,
whence they got the name.
The development system from Carling Drive in Ottawa was transferred to
Bell's Simcoe Street office in Toronto when they went live, and I got a
service call there to work on the DMAX/16s again, as somebody ad removed
the remote diagnostics panel from the PDP11/70? and forgot to replace
the NPG jumper on the backplane, causing bus hangs.
cheers,
Nigel (for people who knew me back then, I was called 'Bill' Johnson!)
On 20/10/2019 15:09, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk
wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this
message
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk
wrote:
For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with
display examples:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html
(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)
Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol
was such as to permit a range of compatible implementations.)
While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a
Telidon/NAPLPS terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II
(or similar) as others mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone
unit. I think using a videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would
have been awkward and the economics poor, there'd either have to be a
rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local server, or
storage hacked onto the terminal.
The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported
in a proprietary manner I'm not aware of explicit support for
touch-screens in the protocol.
I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard)
came rather late in the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for
a dying project. As "Telidon", it had begun years earlier.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel
Johnson via cctalk
wrote:
It was called teletext
despite the implications, at least here in
Canada. People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!
It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was
better than yours? Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext
terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different
on the
other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the
name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a
particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.
The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
2:36 p.m.
On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 03:47:06PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
You are probably right about the 6809, the stuff I
worked on was all in
I knew one of the developers who was working on the 6809's. OS/9 was
a very cool OS as it was very Unix like.
the development stages for the project, and at the
server end.? I did
field engineering for Transduction, and we supplied equipment to Norpak,
although I can't for the life of me remember what!? I remember going to
visit their headquarters in Pakenham and was surprised to find it was a
set of farm outbuildings!? That was the NORton family of PAKenham,
whence they got the name.
The Norton's are well known here in Ottawa.
Our Amateur Radio club here has the Joe Norton award.
https://www.oarc.net/pages/about/awards-1/joe-norton-award/
"Joe Norton was co-founder of one of the first high-tech companies in Ottawa,
Computing Devices of Canada, which he helped start in 1948. Joe balanced his
work life with family and grew a number of hobbies. He was an avid amateur
radio enthusiast and when VE3PN became a silent key in October 1979 his
family donated all his amateur radio equipment to the OARC and asked that
the donation be used to assist beginning amateurs. After considerable
deliberation in 1982 the OARC decided to sell the gear and use the
proceeds to establish a trust fund. Since 1985 proceeds from the trust
fund have provided new amateurs in the National Capital region with a cash
award."
Oddly I worked for Computing Devices Canada for a short while too.
The development system from Carling Drive in Ottawa was transferred to
Bell's Simcoe Street office in Toronto when they went live, and I got a
Not the Crystal Bay Exchange? ;) A lot of young programmers got
themselves burned out working on the development systems. I never worked
on it when I was at BNR hence never saw it but heard the horror stories.
The "switch" was a single source code file said to be the largest
program in the world. Single compilation no linking. No wonder it
took so long to compile. The poor SOBs who worked on it were young 'uns
straight out of school and forced to test their code at midnight or 3am.
service call there to work on the DMAX/16s again, as
somebody ad removed
the remote diagnostics panel from the PDP11/70? and forgot to replace
the NPG jumper on the backplane, causing bus hangs.
;)
cheers,
Nigel (for people who knew me back then, I was called 'Bill' Johnson!)
...
>
> (The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)
>
> Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
> (Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol
> was such as to permit a range of compatible implementations.)
>
> While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a
> Telidon/NAPLPS terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II
> (or similar) as others mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone
> unit. I think using a videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would
> have been awkward and the economics poor, there'd either have to be a
> rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local server, or
> storage hacked onto the terminal.
...
>
> I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard)
> came rather late in the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for
> a dying project. As "Telidon", it had begun years earlier.
Yes hence most people referred to it as Telidon. It was a cool idea
but the Internet and HTML killed it good and proper.
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Why yes. And the original maker movement!
73 Diane Bruce, VA3DB
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
9:49 a.m.
On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:19 PM, John Foust via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
And what sort of technology was that screen using? I expected to see
the grid array of outer infrared LEDs and detectors that I vaguely remember
from that era, but I don't see that here. Someone was making a tube
that was coarsely touch-sensitive?
Theinfrared array you're thinking of was invented at PLATO, for flat panel (plasma)
displays. They don't work for CRTs because of the convex screen.
When CDC built a CRT-based version of the PLATO terminal (the "IST"), they had
to come up with a touch panel for that. The scheme used involved two layers of plastic,
thick enough to be just a little springy, with conductors on the facing side. I don't
remember the type used, it may have been very thin wires or it may have been a
mostly-transparent conductive coating (some indium alloy or compound comes to mind).
Touching the screen would create a contact between an X and a Y conductor, so you'd
get your coordinates via a scan process just like in the IR touch panel, or for that
matter like in keyboards (of that time and later).
paul
9:56 a.m.
On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I suppose it depends on "how convex" and how far you're willing to place the
IR grid from the screen. In any case, the IR touch panels from PLATO plasma displays were
not carried forward to the CRT based IST terminals. Perhaps CDC liked their technology
better even though both could have worked; at this point the reasons why are probably hard
to discover.
paul
Theinfrared array you're thinking of was
invented at PLATO, for flat panel (plasma) displays. They don't work for CRTs because
of the convex screen.
My HP150 will have to disagree with you there.
-tony 
9:57 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:51 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
As would the Oldsmobile Toronado. The Buick Riviera took a different
approach using a resistive array. It worked well, but wasn't compatible
with gloved hands. -C
Theinfrared
array you're thinking of was invented at PLATO, for flat
panel (plasma)
displays. They don't work for CRTs because of the convex
screen.
My HP150 will have to disagree with you there.
-tony
10:30 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 12:49 PM Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I've got a VT100 with a (3rd party?) IR-LED based touch screen which
fits into the normal black bezel around the tube.
Pat
And what sort
of technology was that screen using? I expected to see
the grid array of outer infrared LEDs and detectors that I vaguely remember
from that era, but I don't see that here. Someone was making a tube
that was coarsely touch-sensitive?
Theinfrared array you're thinking of was invented at PLATO, for flat panel (plasma)
displays. They don't work for CRTs because of the convex screen. 
11:24 a.m.
New subject: Commercial touchscreens (was Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?)
Boundless made CRT kits for decades
They are also on HP 16500 logic analyzers
I had a prototype IR touchscreen monitor for the Alto, but stupidly didn't hang onto
it.
On 10/21/19 10:30 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
I've got a VT100 with a (3rd party?) IR-LED based
touch screen which
fits into the normal black bezel around the tube.
Pat
1670
days inactive
1672
days old
18 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bhilpert＠shaw.ca -
coryheisterkamp＠gmail.com -
db＠db.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jon＠jonworld.com -
nw.johnson＠ieee.org -
pat＠vax11.net -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
wayne.sudol＠hotmail.com