Hi (from the list owner). :) I usually tell people to stop eventually, though I am rather lazy about it. Generally, I come down harder on the poltiical discussions. The Altair-price discussions are generally considered to be on topic, not just because they deal with classic computers, but because they deal with changes in the hobby of _collecting_ classic computers. If you've been looking at prices and available machines for any length of time, you can probably tell that it just isn't easy to pick up machines that used to be fairly readily available. (PDP-8's and -11's, for example.) Of course people usually counter by syaing, "But only lazy/desperate/moronic people buy from eBay exclusively!" This is true, but that doesn't mean the rise in prices is not an alarming trend. But if you're out to make money Maybe I should start keeping a list of subjects that are on-topic by consensus, and those that are off-topic by consensus. -- Derek

Once upon a midnight dreary, Victor the Cleaner had spoken clearly: Hello. piece owner Erm... we have a bit of an "alternative lifestyle" list 'round here; as the occasional off-topic thread is tolerated, but yes, once in a while things get a little out of hand on the list. Just "sort by headers" and delete en masse, is my motto. Really, despite the noise, IMNSHO there is *no* better place to be for getting information about classic computers. [snip] For the same reason some (many?) people here like their Commodore 64's & VIC-20's. _Personally_, I have no use for them (save a couple from the dumpster, but not even powered 'em up -- will be up for trade fodder soon) but for a lot of people on this list, they were their first computer. Sentimentality goes a *long* way on this list (which is his reason for owning the computer you don't want, BTW). Believe me, many folks are just as turned off by my RS/Tandys & Ataris & whatnot... but that's o.k. too. By List consensus, we've already figured out that *no-one* on the list is normal, so if _you_ are, you'll just have to learn to deal with strange flights-of-fancy... ;-) Hang in there, find the delete key, and I guarantee you you *will* learn a lot while being on this list. I have. Just my $0.02 USD (what's that in Euros??? ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger

Victor the Cleaner said... |I'm new in these parts, having been referred to the list during a quest |for some (very) old Data I/O programming equipment. ``I can't imagine why you'd want one. After all, [personal preference here]'' But so what? |I can't imagine why you'd want one. Doug pretty well covered my reasons. But beyond that, the ones I used never broke. They just didn't. Oh, they glitched out occasionally, and you had to reboot, but what didn't? For that matter, today, what Micro-based OS (besides BSD and Linux) won't? But so what? |One of the worst excuses for a roll-yer-own switcher |I've ever seen, and nonexistent development software. Development software? DEVELOPMENT SOFTWARE??? The OS was a BASIC with disk commmands, like most fo the other usable micros at the time. What development software? You boot. You type. It did cool stuff. [As opposed to everything that had development tools, which let you do big projects, but often took a week to get to the point that you had anything moving around the screen in an interesting fashion.] *That's* the way to get kids interested in graphics programming. If I can't get a Compucolor, I'll offer to buy my Mom's Mac ][, but I'd much rather have the Compucolor. (I suppose I could go dig the Sinclair out of the unopened boxes from three moves back...) [I thought the floppies were 8", not 5 1/4"...] |Words of advice: |If you want to learn graphics, go track down an SGI Indigo - the purple |cube. They're down in the couple-of-hundred-bucks zone now, and one of |the most elegantly built machines I've touched in almost 25 years in the |biz. No, I want my *kids* to explore their interest in graphics, and in programming. And I just want to play. Meanwhile, if someone wants to give me a decent line on a functioning Indigo for two hundred bucks, I won't argue with that, either. |On the subject of home-supers,... ``I can't imagine why you'd want one.'' [OK, so I'm lying, now!] I'd love a Cyber, esp. if I could get ahold of Ga. Tech's heavily modified operating system. -Miles, who'd love a VAX, too, but turned down a free 780 a few years ago because he didn't have the budget to get 3 phase power and A/C in his basement, and who later wished he'd gotten it, anyway. [Hmmm. I wonder of V the C is trying to scare us off the Compucolor market so he can corner it. 8^P ]