14 Dec
2000
14 Dec
'00
4:11 a.m.
Hi folks,
I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC
machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the
best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for
my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC
machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon
machine boot screens and the like for the museum.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
cheers
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum
14 Dec
14 Dec
5:58 a.m.
At 03:11 PM 12/14/2000 +0000, you wrote:
Hi folks,
I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC
machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the
best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for
my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC
machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon
machine boot screens and the like for the museum.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
cheers
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum
Looking through the manual for my ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO, it gives
the impression that it works on both NTSC and Pal. While I haven't found
any definite reference to Pal, it makes interesting little statements like
" audio is monaural only in Europe", and
"Closed captioning support, NTSC only." While mine works fine on NTSC, I
haven't had occasion to try it on PAL.
Regards
Charlie Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8
foxvideo(a)wincom.net
Check out:
The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo
and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com
9:40 a.m.
New subject: TV Tuner cards (Correction)
Looking through the manual for my ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO, it
gives the impression that it works on both NTSC and Pal. While I haven't
found any definite reference to Pal, it makes interesting little
statements like " audio is monaural only in Europe", and
"Closed captioning support, NTSC only." While mine works fine on NTSC, I
haven't had occasion to try it on PAL.
Sorry, I found the box the ATI board came in and it is labeled TV
input NTSC only.
They must use the same manual for several formats.
Regards
Charlie Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8
foxvideo(a)wincom.net
Check out:
The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo
and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com
Charlie Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8
foxvideo(a)wincom.net
Check out:
The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo
and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com
6:20 a.m.
Hi folks,
I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC
machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the
best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for
my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC
machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon
machine boot screens and the like for the museum.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
You probably have a PeeCee, but I bought a Formac PCI tuner card for my
PowerMac. After I had a mild brain fart getting the RF input set up, it
works great in both PAL and NTSC. Outpost sells it for about $125, and it
comes with decent TV/vidcap software *and* Adobe Premiere 5.1 LE. I take
vid and frame grabs from the C128 all the time with it now.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- If everyone is abnormal, then no one is. -----------------------------------
7:11 a.m.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone
know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I
have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several
composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in.
I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results.
Bill
8:42 a.m.
The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their output
works fine on NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose that might be
the problem?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "bills" <bills(a)adrenaline.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :)
> Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does
anyone know of a card that
does
BOTH PAL-I and
NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I
have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several
composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in.
I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results.
Bill
9:27 a.m.
One thing I
have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I
have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several
composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in.
I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results.
The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their output
works fine on NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose
that might be the problem?
10:32 a.m.
The easiest way to deal with it is to hook a 'scope to the vertical sync
line, triggering on it and see if you get a stabile sync on the second
channel hooked to horizontal sync. if it does look stabile, it's not
interlacing. with interlace (at 30 Hz) every other field is off by half a
horizontal period. It should be pretty apparent, since the display is
difficult to view at that low frequency anyway. If the relation between
vertical-sync and horizontal sync is rock-solid, as I recall it was on most
video displays of the '80's, it's because they didn't interlace.
If you've only got a single trace 'scope, then you just have to look a the
period of the vsync with your trigger set to the vertical sync and
displaying two such pulses. The period will not be precisely half what it
is for two cycles as defined in Hsync periods. The period should be 262.5
hsync periods if it's interlacing. Normally it was on the order of 512 on
the typical video display circuit, only because it was easy to generate. In
some cases it's as long as 640 or even 768, with a long blanking window. If
you trigger on hsync and can't get a stabile display of the vsync it's
probably interlaced. If you trigger on vsync and can't get a stabile
display of hsync, then, likewise, it's because the hsync is half-a-cycle off
the verical rate, which means they're interlacing.
The easiest way is to look at a schematic. Also, if the display is
something line 16 lines of 64 characters, e.g. TRS-80, or Digital Group,
then it's likely it's not interlaced. If it's something like a 640 (or 512)
x 384 (or 512) raster, it's likely to be interlaced. The bandwidth of most
monitors from the Ohio Scientific days interlaced only when there were large
numbers off pixels. Those couldn't be displayed on low-cost displays
without interlace because of the requirement for high ( > 10 MHz) bandwidth
from the video amps. Remember that a non-interlaced
and non-flickering
display required a 60 Hz frame rate with the typical (P4?)
phosphor of the
time. Interlace does flicker somewhat.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sudbrink" <bills(a)adrenaline.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:27 PM
Subject: RE: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :)
> > One thing I have discovered... For whatever
reason, the two TV cards
I
> > have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific
boxes. I have several
> > composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite
in.
> > I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box
with about the same
results.
>
> The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their
output
works fine on
NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose
that might be the problem?
Hmmm... how would I check this?
8:21 a.m.
My friend Mark of Skyforward Productions uses a Mirrovideo dc30 series
card that does both video standards. I think it might also do PAL/M and
Secam. You will have to research the newer-model cards as his is no
longer made.
I forwarded your message to Mark. If he has been drooling over any specs,
he'll let you know.
Regards,
Jeff
In <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094(a)gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk>uk>, on 12/14/00
at 02:21 PM, Adrian Graham <agraham(a)ccat.co.uk> said:
Hi folks,
I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the
number of NTSC
machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't
the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner
card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my
NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of
uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone
know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
cheers
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
8:28 a.m.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone
know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
Well.... My PowerMac 8500/180 came with that capability builtin :^) I
don't know if other A/V Mac's have this capability or not.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:57 p.m.
Problem - I
can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
Well.... My PowerMac 8500/180 came with that capability builtin :^) I
don't know if other A/V Mac's have this capability or not. 
10:21 a.m.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone
know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
For an older PC using PCI slots for the video card, the Real
3D Starfighter had a version that had both inputs and outputs that
could work with both PAL and NTSC. It's a 3D card based on the i860
and it has 16meg of RAM onboard. I used to see these on eBay quite a
bit.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
4:40 p.m.
Adrian,
I had* a couple of Zydacron Z-220 CODEC Video Conferencing cards that
handled both NTSC and PAL. They didn't have TV tuners so I don't know if
they'd do what you wanted or not. *I say had because I JUST sold them. The
guy told me today that he wanted both of them. I think I may have one more
but I'm not sure. I posted a picture and a brief description of them at
"http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200992955&ed=976557
593".
Joe
At 03:11 PM 12/14/00 +0000, you wrote:
Hi folks,
I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC
machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the
best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for
my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC
machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon
machine boot screens and the like for the museum.
Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does
BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live
happily together in the same box?
cheers
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum
8615
days inactive
8616
days old
12 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
agraham＠ccat.co.uk -
bills＠adrenaline.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
foxvideo＠wincom.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
THETechnoid＠home.com