15 Dec
2019
15 Dec
'19
11:40 a.m.
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked to
take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
15 Dec
15 Dec
12:30 p.m.
On 12/15/19 11:40 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
Can't say about the list, but rather than classic the usual term
for these systems is legacy.
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked to
take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Like COBOL and Fortan most people think these languages have
completely gone away. Sadly, the only thing that is going away
is the body of experience writing and maintaining them.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
I still have a number of RPG books on the bookshelf behind me
right now. Haven't worked with it in a long time but always
liked it when I had the opportunity.
Just out of curiosity, is this on iSeries?
bill
1:40 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon
via cctalk
Sent: 15 December 2019 17:31
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
On 12/15/19 11:40 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
I think another issue is that the employer's expectations of what they need to pay
does not match what such programmers want to move.
Many Fortran, Cobol and I guess RPG programmers have moved onto lucrative jobs or are
established in a particular area.
I am sure if employers were more realistic and prepared to acknowledge such skills are
valuable there would be more programmers.
I guess if they are looking for C , C++ or VB programmers you can get some you hopefuls
cheap. That?s rather harder for COBOL, Fortran or RPG.
(If any one wants Fortran and is prepared to condone remote working I am available)
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
Can't say about the list, but rather than classic the usual term for these systems
is legacy.
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked
to take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Like COBOL and Fortan most people think these languages have completely
gone away. Sadly, the only thing that is going away is the body of experience
writing and maintaining them.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
I still have a number of RPG books on the bookshelf
behind me right now.
Haven't worked with it in a long time but always liked it when I had the
opportunity.
Just out of curiosity, is this on iSeries?
bill
Dave
5:31 p.m.
On 12/15/19 1:40 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
Legacy jobs pay quite well. Many pay 6 figures. The real problem
is that schools not only stopped teaching these languages but in
some cases took to openly attacking them and doing everything in
their power to convince students to no even look at them. (Yes, I
saw that first hand during my 25 years at a University where I
fought very hard to keep them in the curriculum!) The result is
that these people are not moving but retiring and there are no
replacements coming up thru the ranks to fill the empty holes.
One mans perfect course is another nightmare. I would have a look at the resources and
see which ones you like....
bill
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon
via cctalk
Sent: 15 December 2019 17:31
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
On 12/15/19 11:40 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
I think another issue is that the employer's expectations of what they need to pay
does not match what such programmers want to move.
Many Fortran, Cobol and I guess RPG programmers have moved onto lucrative jobs Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
Can't say about the list, but rather than classic the usual term for these systems
is legacy.
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked
to take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Like COBOL and Fortan most people think these languages have completely
gone away. Sadly, the only thing that is going away is the body of experience
writing and maintaining them. or are established in a particular area.
I am sure if employers were more realistic and prepared to acknowledge such skills are
valuable there would be more programmers.
Employers aren't the problem, academia is the problem.
I guess if they are looking for C , C++ or VB
programmers you can get some you hopefuls cheap. That?s rather harder for COBOL, Fortran
or RPG.
(If any one wants Fortran and is prepared to condone remote working I am available)
I am available for pretty much any of the legacy languages. But then
if you actually have experience with these languages you also have the
age problem to get past.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
I still have a number of RPG books on the
bookshelf behind me right now.
Haven't worked with it in a long time but always liked it when I had the
opportunity.
Just out of curiosity, is this on iSeries?
bill
Dave
12:37 p.m.
s?n 2019-12-15 klockan 08:40 -0800 skrev Guy N. via cctalk:
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked
to
take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in
RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm
hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
considering that an industry here in sweden is looking for people with
knowledge of RPG (in an iSeries environment) or with a personality
which suits.
They also have a rather large MOVEX deployment (RPG is used in an ERP
solution.)
1:43 p.m.
considering that an industry here in sweden is looking for people with
knowledge of RPG (in an iSeries environment) or with a personality
which suits.
They also have a rather large MOVEX deployment (RPG is used in an ERP
solution.)
Interesting. On the other hand, I got some books about RPG (legacy in terms
of age) but depending on the work to do it would be better to get some
literature of references more recent. From System/36 or iSeries. And be
careful about the RPG language version involved (I, II, III...)
Cordiales saludos / Best Regards / Salutations / Freundliche Gr??e
-----
Sergio Pedraja
1:39 p.m.
On 12/15/19 9:40 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
?\_(?)_/?
The department of motor vehicle defines "classic" as a vehicle at least
25 years old. I strongly suspect that RPG is at least 25 years old.
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position
of being asked
to take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Is this an AS/400 / iSeries / IBM i environment? That's about the only
place that I see (any version of) RPG being used.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a
crash course in RPG?
I've found the people in the comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc newsgroup to be
friendly. Given the AS/400 nature of RPG, I suspect that there are
multiple people there which can help.
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of
hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
You will likely have a lot of collisions, with role playing games. I'd
suggest that you include "IBM" in the search string.
You can probably find a number of tutorials online and / or books at the
various second hand for sale sites.
I just fear that there's going to be a LOT more noise to signal for this.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
2:50 p.m.
On 12/15/19 8:40 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked to
take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG?
Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping
someone here can help select the most useful ones.
For me at least, the question is "which RPG?". 1401 or S/360 RPG is a
fair bit different from RPG IV, which, I believe still enjoys some use.
That it persists this long has always mystified me. RPG clearly was for
people familiar with unit-record data processing (sorters, collators,
accounting machines, etc.) That there are practically *no* people
alive who are familiar the EAM school of data processing, defies logic
for any popularity of RPG. i.e., Go figure.
To the people of the microcomputer age, "RPG" appears to refer only to
"role playing games".
--Chuck
3:12 p.m.
To the people of the microcomputer age,
"RPG" appears to refer only to"role playing games".
--Chuck
Then there are those of us who, upon hearing "RPG", initially think of something
entirely different:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG
Will
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"The names of global variables should start with // " -- https://isocpp.org
3:54 p.m.
It was part of our program in the '90s possible because it was still in use by the
local utility company, and popular on the AS/400.
But learning that and APL gave me a distorted sense of program beauty.
----- Original Message -----
From: "General Discussion, On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion, On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 3:12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
To the people
of the microcomputer age, "RPG" appears to refer only to"role
playing games".
--Chuck
Then there are those of us who, upon hearing "RPG", initially think of
something
entirely different:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG
Will
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"The names of global variables should start with // " -- https://isocpp.org
4:25 p.m.
On 12/15/19 12:12 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
Retrograde pyelogram? :)
--Chuck
To the people of the microcomputer age,
"RPG" appears to refer only to"role playing games".
--Chuck
Then there are those of us who, upon hearing "RPG", initially think of
something entirely different:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG
6:11 p.m.
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
Can't say about the list, but rather than classic the usual term
for these systems is legacy.
Or maybe "walking undead". First sign of the zombie apocalypse?
Can't kill what keeps coming back from the dead.
> To the people of the microcomputer age,
"RPG" appears to refer only
> to"role playing games".
> --Chuck
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
Then there are those of us who, upon hearing
"RPG", initially think of
something entirely different:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG
There could be some overlap. Don't some of the "first person shooter"
games have RPGs? Or only BFG?
Retrograde pyelogram? :)
Had any kidney stones?
Having clarified that we are talking about IBM Report Program generator,
I have known people who had an outright hatred of RPG. I can understand
not having any interest in it, but why the hostility?
9:05 p.m.
On 12/15/19 3:11 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Oh yes, the sensations are etched in my memory permanently.
Retrograde
pyelogram? :)
Had any kidney stones? Having clarified that we are talking about IBM Report
Program generator,
I have known people who had an outright hatred of RPG.? I can understand
not having any interest in it, but why the hostility?
Pick a language, any language--you'll find someone who hates it. That's
why there are so many.
--Chuck
11:16 p.m.
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Pick a language, any language--you'll find someone
who hates it. That's
why there are so many.
. . . and, every Master's degree computer science student writes a
programming language.
Dijkstra had clever nasty things to say about many programming languages.
I can't find his opinion about RPG.
16 Dec
16 Dec
9:24 a.m.
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 20:16 -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Dijkstra had clever nasty things to say about many
programming languages.
I can't find his opinion about RPG.
Unprintable, even on the interwebs? :-)
Thanks for all the replies, both humorous and informative. I'll try to
find out what version of RPG my friend has the misfortune to be working
with, and what platform it's on.
17 Dec
17 Dec
8:47 a.m.
New subject: Speaking of RPG.... was :Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
Hi all,
This discussion brought up some memories. Until I retired, I was in the
media conversion business (read : handling media Windows did not
support). One of my customers was the danish Custom and Tax authority,
and they had a peculiar problem. They wanted the incoming data to be
verified before the data was forwarded to the mainframe, so they did not
have to search through boxes of media when errors were found, in order
to be able to return the medium to the supplier.
The software used for the conversion, was called 'Intermedia for
Windows'. Apart from being able to do normal conversions, there was the
possibility to lead the data through a customer-defined DLL, before
being written to the ouputfile.
So what I had to do, was to develop a Windows DLL, doing whatever was
specified by the customer, including writing errorlists, table look-ups
and other niceties. And as the customer had RPG-II experience in-house,
the job was clearly defined.
This was accomplished by writing an RPG-II editor, written in Delphi. A
program would then interprete the RPG-II source, and would then compile
it into a DLL.
Surprisingly, it worked quite well
/Nico
On 2019-12-16 15:24, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 20:16 -0800, Fred Cisin via
cctalk wrote:
Dijkstra had clever nasty things to say about
many programming languages.
I can't find his opinion about RPG.
Unprintable, even on the interwebs? :-)
Thanks for all the replies, both humorous and informative. I'll try to
find out what version of RPG my friend has the misfortune to be working
with, and what platform it's on.
9:52 a.m.
On 12/16/19 9:24 AM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 20:16 -0800, Fred Cisin via
cctalk wrote:
Itf it can be done remote I would be glad to relieve him of the
misfortune. :-) Some of us have enough experience to know the
value of some of these legacy systems.
bill
Dijkstra had clever nasty things to say about
many programming languages.
I can't find his opinion about RPG.
Unprintable, even on the interwebs? :-)
Thanks for all the replies, both humorous and informative. I'll try to
find out what version of RPG my friend has the misfortune to be working
with, and what platform it's on. 
15 Dec
15 Dec
5:46 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "Guy N. via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
... there are practically *no* people alive who are familiar [with] the EAM school of data
processing...
---------------
Hey! We're not *all* dead yet...
m
16 Dec
16 Dec
4:25 p.m.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 08:40:29AM -0800, Guy N. via cctalk wrote:
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list?
Older fixed format RPG probably would be. Modern free format RPG probably
wouldn't be.
A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position
of being asked to
take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it.
I knew very little about it before we migrated from our IBM mainframe system
running z/OS to an IBM i based system where I work a few years ago.
Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a
crash course in RPG?
It depends on the version and platform. For free format on an IBM i,
something like:
https://www.Amazon.com/Free-Format-RPG-IV-Express-Learning/dp/1583474137
and/or
http://www.RedBooks.IBM.com/abstracts/sg245402.html
might be helpful. And/or sites like the RPGPGM Blog:
http://www.RPGPgm.com
and/or RPG Cafe:
https://www.IBM.com/developerworks/ibmi/rpg/welcome
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
17 Dec
17 Dec
12:30 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 03:25:26PM -0600, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote:
It depends on the version and platform. For free
format on an IBM i,
something like:
Another good resource for modern IBM i RPG is the RPG400-L mailing list:
https://Lists.MidRange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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days inactive
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19 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
decguy＠songdog.eskimo.com -
Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
nico＠farumdata.dk -
reboot＠ncf.ca -
spedraja＠gmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
wrcooke＠wrcooke.net