21 Apr
1999
21 Apr
'99
6:44 a.m.
> Speaking from decades of experience, you *do not*
put a Unibus machine
> together in a big configuration, especially from mix-and-match used
> parts, and get it to work. You go down to the most basic configuration
> possible, and then add parts one at a time, testing as you go.
Well, with the exception of the DELUA, and RAM
everything is configured the
way it was when I got the machine, but that's a good point.
I hope nobody takes it as an insult when I try to encourage them to take
a system down to its bare-bones and build it back up step-by-step, but
this really is the best way to debug a system that one knows little
about the history of. Just because something is written on the sticker
on the cover of a system about its configuration doesn't mean that it
was working in that last configuration! In particular, with Unibus
machines you have to check the presence of the NPG jumpers on the backplane
if you have the slightest reason to believe that the configuration has
been meddled with in the slightest since it last worked. A single
mis-placed jumper anywhere in the system can cause the entire system
to lock up when the first DMA attempt is made...
Tim.
21 Apr
21 Apr
8:28 a.m.
Upon the date 11:44 AM 4/21/99 -0400, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.COM said
something like:
Amen brother! That is the best way to approach problem solving: Get the
parts which can be, or at least contribute to, the problem out of the way
-provided those parts are options and/or not integral to the basic
startup/running of the machine. Sort of like cutting the brush down to see
into the forest.
That's where I'm at with my 11/34A, a slow-moving project. Seems when I put
the project aside a couple of weeks before Megan started work on hers, the
bus was hanging for some reason. I've got to find and check the bus grant
lines through to the terminator first. Tricky for me as this is the very
*first* Unibus, or even DEC for that matter, hardware I've had the pleasure
to work with. The backplane connector pinouts are wierdly strange to me so
far :) I'm used to the numbering scheme found on VMEbus, STDbus and even
that infernal ISA bus as opposed to the DEC folks here who may see it in
their sleep;) But I'll get the hang of it eventually. It'll just take me
that amount longer to get the machine running.
I need to remove the FP11 and cache modules and try to see if it can do
stuff w/o hanging. I'll get back to you DEC folks in another week or two
about this if I have a pothole of trouble to leap over:)
I must get back on it as soon as I get the final clean-out and fix-up of
our old house completed so it can be sold. That's been putting much
pressure upon me recently. It takes up time I want to use for getting the
/34A running to sort out some RL01/02 disk packs before the balance of them
head out west with the rest of the gear heading out. I only take timeout to
*try* to keep up with this and several other mail lists (about average 120
to 170 msgs total per 24 hrs. Sometimes over 200 with loo-ong threads like
several of the decidedly *off topic* threads which have come thru this list
in the past weeks :(
> Speaking
from decades of experience, you *do not* put a Unibus machine
> together in a big configuration, especially from mix-and-match used
> parts, and get it to work. You go down to the most basic configuration
> possible, and then add parts one at a time, testing as you go.
Well, with the exception of the DELUA, and RAM
everything is configured the
way it was when I got the machine, but that's a good point.
I hope nobody takes it as an insult when I try to encourage them to take
a system down to its bare-bones and build it back up step-by-step, but
this really is the best way to debug a system that one knows little
about the history of. Just because something is written on the sticker on the cover of a system about its configuration
doesn't mean that it
was working in that last configuration! In particular, with Unibus
This is true. I was told that it *may* have worked when I picked it up. But
the previous owner likely may not have remembered correctly (it was over
five years since he turned it on) as I couldn't get it lit up last Autumn
by using the original RK07's.
machines you have to check the presence of the NPG
jumpers on the backplane
if you have the slightest reason to believe that the configuration has
been meddled with in the slightest since it last worked. A single
mis-placed jumper anywhere in the system can cause the entire system
to lock up when the first DMA attempt is made...
Briefly, which are the NPG jumper pin numbers again?
Any other jumpers or ww connections I should check out? I'm not blessed
with a complete set of printsets and/or tech manuals so some important tips
may not be found by me. I've been trapped by problems caused by lack of
correct or detailed info on this already.
Thanks much. Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
9:45 a.m.
New subject: Is this an 11/44 or 11/34?
Briefly, which are the NPG jumper pin numbers again?
If my foggy brain cells work.
CA1-CB1
Any other jumpers or ww connections I should check out? I'm not blessed
with a complete set of printsets and/or tech manuals so some important tips
may not be found by me. I've been trapped by problems caused by lack of
correct or detailed info on this already.
Thanks much. Regards, Chris
If you get into trouble holler. I may have an 11/34 pocket guide
somewhere. My 11/34 printsets hit the trash when I got married 6 years
ago. (damn>
Does this machine have battery backup?
Bill
---
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC,
The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.
3:23 p.m.
New subject: Is this an 11/44 or 11/34?
Upon the date 02:45 PM 4/21/99 -0400, Bill Pechter said something like:
Okay, I'll check them sometime soon.
Thanks muchly!
Briefly, which
are the NPG jumper pin numbers again?
If my foggy brain cells work.
CA1-CB1
Any other jumpers or ww connections I should check out? I'm not blessed
with a complete set of printsets and/or tech manuals so some important tips
may not be found by me. I've been trapped by problems caused by lack of
correct or detailed info on this already.
Thanks much. Regards, Chris
If you get into trouble holler. I may have an 11/34 pocket guide somewhere. My 11/34 printsets hit the trash when I got
married 6 years
ago. (damn>
Marriage did that to you Bill??! Beverly thinks my stuff (*especially*
the old radio collection and library) is just fine provided it is out of
the normal living areas of the house. I can't complain about her thoughts
regarding that of course.
My problem is getting the two collections all stuffed into the attic,
basement shop area, extra room used as a library/study, the back garage (a
2nd garage separate from the house) and a corner of the attached garage.
When Hans and Christine F. were here last fall before VCF II they had seen
only a small part of everything! And I'm still trying to get everything I
plan to keep shoehorned into "my areas".
It's slow going to haul everything a Jeep-load at a time and fit it in. I
wish I was fortunate like Sellam or Philip B. in having a cheep-cheep
storage area! I can't pay for storage long-term until I get a decent job
and pay off some bills :( I just gotta cut back the collections somewhat.
Does this machine have battery backup?
No, it doesn't.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
11:26 a.m.
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3:42 p.m.
Upon the date 09:26 PM 4/21/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like:
Yep, that's what I'm thinking of . . .
That's
where I'm at with my 11/34A, a slow-moving project. Seems when I put
the project aside a couple of weeks before Megan started work on hers, the
You're in good company. It took me over a month from getting my first
11/45 to turning the key for the first time. And I didn't have anything
else to do. I was reading printsets, figuring out what everything did,
etc. Took me another month after that to have it run a program...
bus was hanging for some reason. I've got to
find and check the bus grant
Open grants are the most likely cause of this.
To start with, just use the CPU backplane (you can get the CPU, one
memory board and a DL11-W in it, which is all you need to start with) and keep the M9302 terminator out as well (you can put in
an M930 if you have
Hmmm, haven't left out the M9302 as I thought it *must* be in, even in
minimal config as pointed out above, for proper termination no matter what.
I have no M930 or M9300.
one). If it works now, but hangs with the M9302 in the
last slot, then
it's almost certainly a grant problem.
Got it.
Thanks so far . . .
You just might get me to steal some time from what I really *must* be doing
to get the old house cleared out to sell and use it to fiddle with the 34A
;) Maybe this weekend. Friday is supposed to be rainy and crappy outside
so maybe then. An appropriate Bavarian expression is what I want to use
here but have no idea of the spelling as Bayerische is not a written
language :) (Es ist Schou mul-moi Hans??)
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
Briefly, which are the NPG jumper pin numbers
again?
CA1-CB1 on an SPC slot.
5:03 p.m.
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11:18 a.m.
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cfandt＠netsync.net -
CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.COM -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org