4 Jul
2018
4 Jul
'18
3:58 p.m.
brain fade, I know I've made a HPUX 9 install CD before but I've
forgotten how you make one that can be booted by the LIF boot rom
in the machine.
4 Jul
4 Jul
4:24 p.m.
I'm assuming you are trying to use the newly added HP-UX images on
bitsavers? I haven't tried those yet, but I don't remember doing anything
special, the install CD is already bootable.
I have a V/382 (AFAIK virtually identical with the 9000/382 except for the
form factor), and it boots straight from the Install CD, no magic involved.
I'll give your images a try when I get a chance.
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 12:58 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
brain fade, I know I've made a HPUX 9 install CD
before but I've
forgotten how you make one that can be booted by the LIF boot rom
in the machine.
4:50 p.m.
On 7/4/18 4:24 PM, Rico Pajarola wrote:
I'm assuming you are trying to use the newly added
HP-UX images on bitsavers?
No, this is for the 9mb inital boot cd.
I was trying to remember if you had to do something like set it to 2048 byte
blocks. I remember I had created the .lif file for a reason. I know someone got
it to work just by copying that .lif to a scsi hard disk.
6:17 p.m.
hi
I can provide a bootable CD image of HPUX v10.20
2018-07-05 1:50 GMT+02:00 Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
On 7/4/18 4:24 PM, Rico Pajarola wrote:
I'm assuming you are trying to use the newly
added HP-UX images on bitsavers?
No, this is for the 9mb inital boot cd.
I was trying to remember if you had to do something like set it to 2048 byte
blocks. I remember I had created the .lif file for a reason. I know someone got
it to work just by copying that .lif to a scsi hard disk.
8:09 p.m.
9.1 was the last version that works on 68k 9000s
It may be I'm trying to use the wrong kind of CDROM drive.
Will probably just put it onto a hard disk.
On 7/4/18 6:17 PM, Carlo Pisani wrote:
hi
I can provide a bootable CD image of HPUX v10.20
2018-07-05 1:50 GMT+02:00 Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
>
>
> On 7/4/18 4:24 PM, Rico Pajarola wrote:
>> I'm assuming you are trying to use the newly added HP-UX images on
bitsavers?
>
> No, this is for the 9mb inital boot cd.
>
> I was trying to remember if you had to do something like set it to 2048 byte
> blocks. I remember I had created the .lif file for a reason. I know someone got
> it to work just by copying that .lif to a scsi hard disk.
>
>
>
5 Jul
5 Jul
12:59 a.m.
You can use "bchunk" to convert 2352 to something you can dd on a disk (I
recommend scsi2sd if you don't want to burn physical CDs. The boot rom
happily boots from anything that has the right bits on it, but the
installer needs a lot of manual convincing to install from the wrong media
type. Not impossible, just tedious). I'm also pretty sure that it's not
necessary to keep the images as 2352 byte images, they still work when
converted to 2048 bytes.
I tried it on the images on bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/HPUX_9/2352_byte
(calling them .iso is confusing, .bin would have been a more conventional
choice):
----
$ file hpux900_install.iso
hpux900_install.iso: data
$ bchunk hpux900_install.iso hpux900_install.cue /tmp/hpux900_install.iso
Reading the CUE file:
Track 1: MODE1/2352 01 00:00:00
Writing tracks:
1: /tmp/hpux900_install.iso01.iso 7/7 MB [********************] 100
%
$ file /tmp/hpux900_install.iso01.iso
/tmp/hpux900_install.iso01.iso: Unix Fast File system [v1] (big-endian),
last mounted on , last written at Tue Aug 25 18:41:39 1992, clean flag 23,
number of blocks 1500, number of data blocks 1451, number of cylinder
groups 1, block size 8192, fragment size 1024, minimum percentage of free
blocks 10, rotational delay 4ms, disk rotational speed 8rps, TIME
optimization
----
which looks as expected and is identical to the hpux9.lif file one folder
up.
If that doesn't work I can provide you with the image I used to install
mine.
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 1:50 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 7/4/18 4:24 PM, Rico Pajarola wrote:
I'm assuming you are trying to use the newly
added HP-UX images on
bitsavers?
No, this is for the 9mb inital boot cd.
I was trying to remember if you had to do something like set it to 2048
byte
blocks. I remember I had created the .lif file for a reason. I know
someone got
it to work just by copying that .lif to a scsi hard disk.
6:26 p.m.
On 7/5/18 12:59 AM, Rico Pajarola wrote:
I tried it on the images on
bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/HPUX_9/2352_byte
<http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/HPUX_9/2352_byte> (calling them .iso is
confusing, .bin would have been a more
conventional choice):
I'll clean that up
It turned out to be the cd rom drive.
I had to use an older hp scsi drive (Toshiba XM-3201) than the A1999 I tried initially
Setting it to ID 3 helped too
6 Jul
6 Jul
4:44 p.m.
This brings up an interesting question. For those of us with a 9000/300 but
no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a
9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get
a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy?
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Today's forecast is total crap! -- Strong Bad, "Homestar Runner" Menu #11
--
4:53 p.m.
Not what you asked for, but I successfully used HPDrive to emulate HP-IB
devices (disk and tapes). I never had any luck with physical tape drives.
I've only ever seen HP-UX 5.1 on floppies. To install something more
modern, it would be much easier to boot it over the network.
On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 1:44 AM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
This brings up an interesting question. For those of
us with a 9000/300 but
no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a
9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get
a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy?
--
------------------------------------ personal:
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Today's forecast is total crap! -- Strong Bad, "Homestar Runner" Menu
#11 --
5:05 p.m.
Digging through some HP docs, CD-ROM boot was only possible on 8.0 and up.
Does HPDrive simulate a 9144 or 45?
On 7/6/18 4:53 PM, Rico Pajarola via cctalk wrote:
Not what you asked for, but I successfully used
HPDrive to emulate HP-IB
devices (disk and tapes). I never had any luck with physical tape drives.
I've only ever seen HP-UX 5.1 on floppies. To install something more
modern, it would be much easier to boot it over the network.
5:17 p.m.
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Digging through some HP docs, CD-ROM boot was only
possible on 8.0 and up.
Does HPDrive simulate a 9144 or 45?
HPDrive will emulate a 9144A.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
6:52 p.m.
On 7/6/18 5:17 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
?? HPDrive will emulate a 9144A.
That's good enough for software distributions. I don't think
I've ever seen a distribution tape that was 32 track.
9145 added a bunch of fancy buffering HPIB command stuff to get
it to stream at 120ips.
5:03 p.m.
If it hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty the capstan is goo.
A friend helped me make a new capstan for one of the 9145s that I have, it
worked until the logic croaked. I was able to load exactly ONE tape before
it died. I'm in the process of buying a refurbished one from 360 Technologies
just so I know I have one tested working one.
This is a huge PITA for me at CHM, because HP gave us literally hundreds of
tapes. I also note the extreme lack of 914x tape images anywhere. I haven't
dug into them enough to understand even how to image them. They are block
addressable, but have file marks. This is sort of like QIC tapes, though I
haven't gotten into it far enough to know if the tape mark is an out of band
(sits between a block) or consumes one.
When Crisis Computer closed down, I tried reading a few, with pretty poor
results. Even after changing the band, most just faulted.
Recently I read the HP Journal article on the 9145, and one of the things they
did was use special textured belts in their cartridges to make them work at 120ips
The Journal also makes it sound like the things were WAY over-engineered.
On 7/6/18 4:44 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
This brings up an interesting question. For those of
us with a 9000/300 but
no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a
9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get
a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy?
5:22 p.m.
If it hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty
the capstan is goo.
No, I fixed the capstan, and I'm using brand new IOTAMAT tapes still in
the original shrink wrap, but only one drive will even certify tapes and
none of them will write them. It just faults, like you said. I have a
NOS one in box and I replaced the capstan on that but it works even worse
than the beat-up one I restored in the first place.
This is a huge PITA for me at CHM, because HP gave us
literally hundreds of
tapes. I also note the extreme lack of 914x tape images anywhere. I haven't
dug into them enough to understand even how to image them. They are block
addressable, but have file marks. This is sort of like QIC tapes, though I
haven't gotten into it far enough to know if the tape mark is an out of band
(sits between a block) or consumes one.
They're IOTAMAT. I don't know many of the format details but they come
preformatted from the factory and idiots treat them like QIC (because it's
the same form factor) and demagnetize them. Or, they send you DC600A tapes
"because they look the same."
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Is there another word for synonym? -----------------------------------------
6:50 p.m.
On 7/6/18 5:22 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
3M 600HC?
I saw the same thing on brand new ones of those. The only tape I've ever gotten
to mount was a 16track HP labeled tape with ME10 on it.
If it
hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty the capstan is goo.
No, I fixed the capstan, and I'm using brand new IOTAMAT tapes still in
the original shrink wrap, but only one drive will even certify tapes and
none of them will write them.
They're IOTAMAT. I don't know many of the format details but they come
preformatted from the factory and idiots treat them like QIC (because it's
the same form factor) and demagnetize them. Or, they send you DC600A tapes
"because they look the same."
Some of the details are in the earlier HP manuals pre 914x and in the HP Journal
articles on the 9144 and 45. The recording format has redundancy where logical blocks
are chunked and written redundantly across physical blocks, then error-corrected on
read. Block labeling and soft EOT BOT marks are written full track when the tapes are
made. There are no EOT/BOT holes, so inserting a tape in a QIC drive just runs the tape
off of the BOT.
I hate these things even more than ordinary QIC tapes, and that's saying a lot.
7 Jul
7 Jul
8:56 a.m.
No, I fixed
the capstan, and I'm using brand new IOTAMAT tapes still in
the original shrink wrap, but only one drive will even certify tapes and
none of them will write them.
3M 600HC? I saw the same thing on brand new ones of those. The
only tape I've ever
gotten to mount was a 16track HP labeled tape with ME10 on it.
Then I don't feel so bad (I couldn't for the life of me imagine what I'd
done wrong restoring it -- I cleaned the heads perfectly, and replaced the
capstan and checked the optical sensor and the whole deal), but I'm still
screwed since I don't have a way of backing up or booting this machine if
the disk dies. Fortunately it's one of the tanklike HP 6000s (670H).
I'll see if Stan's tape drive does any better, though I'd really like some
way to boot a CD on it. I know there are CS/80 CD-ROMs but they only seem
to come up for $CRAZY.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- He who Laughs, Lasts. ------------------------------------------------------
6 Jul
6 Jul
9:49 a.m.
Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to boot on the 68K
9000s?
I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have started digging
through my
boxes of drives for other models to test.
Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie. what commands they
support)?
I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers. Another one of those
things
I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM drives while Weird
Stuff still existed.
10:15 a.m.
I've stayed with the Toshibas although I have a Sony that supports the
block size as well. The thing to do is look for external CD-ROMs from like
SUN DEC etc. Or from the SUN 3800 I need to get rid of.
On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 9:49 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of
SCSI CDROMs known to
boot on the 68K 9000s?
I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have
started digging through my
boxes of drives for other models to test.
Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie.
what commands they support)?
I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers.
Another one of those things
I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM
drives while Weird Stuff still existed.
11:34 a.m.
I have a Sony CDU561-SC (it came in a Sun 411 case - not sure if Sun
ever sold them like this or if it was custom) that worked just fine to
boot an HP 9000/425e (one of the last 68k models, I think?) the other
day. Its been pretty handy for various old workstations (except for my
SGI Indy who really doesn't seem to like it)
Sophie
On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 1:16 PM Pete Lancashire via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I've stayed with the Toshibas although I have a Sony that supports the
block size as well. The thing to do is look for external CD-ROMs from like
SUN DEC etc. Or from the SUN 3800 I need to get rid of.
On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 9:49 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to
> boot on the 68K 9000s?
> I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have
> started digging through my
> boxes of drives for other models to test.
>
> Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie.
> what commands they support)?
>
> I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers.
> Another one of those things
> I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM
> drives while Weird Stuff still existed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
6:22 p.m.
On Jul 6, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Sophie Haskins via cctech wrote:
I have a Sony CDU561-SC (it came in a Sun 411 case -
not sure if Sun
ever sold them like this or if it was custom)
The easiest way to tell is whether the faceplate on the drive is molded in such a way that
it creates an integral fit with the box. A "normal" drive in a 411 creates a big
gap.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
12:43 p.m.
I've successfully booted both my HP 9000/380 and 425e systems from a
Toshiba SD-M1711 DVD-ROM drive jumpered to 512 byte/sector mode.
In my case I was using CD images provided by David Collins from
hpmuseum.net. The boot CD image that I got from him has the same md5sum
as the hpux9_install.iso image that I just downloaded from bitsavers. I
didn't need to do anything special to burn it or boot from it. It just
worked.
On 2018-07-06 12:49 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of
SCSI CDROMs known to boot on the 68K 9000s?
I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have started digging
through my
boxes of drives for other models to test.
8 Jul
8 Jul
2:11 p.m.
On 7/6/18 9:49 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of
SCSI CDROMs known to boot on the 68K 9000s?
Closing this out, pretty much any Apple SCSI drive (MATSUSHITA CR-50x) from the 600i to
24x will boot the installer
when set to unit 0, parity enabled.
I was testing against some broken carrier-load ancient CDROM drives, of which I did
finally get the oldest HP to work
(a Toshiba XM-3201)
The notes and naming on bitsavers have been cleaned up, and I added a CD with a tarball of
the '98 Y2K patches.
2359
days inactive
2363
days old
21 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bear＠typewritten.org -
carlojpisani＠gmail.com -
haskins.sophie＠gmail.com -
jpstewart＠sympatico.ca -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
rp＠servium.ch -
spectre＠floodgap.com