<> Since the quote is from my post why not step away from ad hominin <> commentary. < <If you wish to be singled out, then fine. There are many on this list <with the same attitude, so it more or less applies to lots of people. The <attitude is one of elitism (sp?) - that our little circle of collectors <is far and away the best place for all of our machines, and that if you <are not in the circle, you are trash not worth of even the most common box I prefer to speak for myself only. If I resemble that, then there is a great misunderstanding. If anything I've passed on a great deal of material usually free or at prices so low as to reflect a disregard profit. But hey at least were talking about it. <Put yourself if the shoes of some guy from zdnet or Dell - that quote <is basically a direct slam against how well corporate institutions treat <historical artifacts. Dell and zdnet happened to be be "in the wrong <place at the wrong time" - and their names were dragged around a bit. Since the conversation was in the context of their seeking I can see possible confusion. No direct slams were intended, however they were misconstrued. Maybe because I have a realistic attitude about business. Even business do things they don't like or wish to do. <It seems that the DEC U.S. collection turned TC"M" is just about the only <massive failure, and even then, DEC wins back a lot of points for the DEC <Australia collection (now under independent control). Look at some of the <successes - Westinghouse, Motorola, IBM (for a time). There are many more <smaller ones, too - U.S. Robotics even had a very small exhibit (they <still do, even after the 3com buyout). Most of these corporate museums <are SERIOUS about what they do, and frankly, put us to shame when it <comes to how well they treat their holdings (how many of us keep out <goodies in climate controlled rooms, stored or displayed with dignity, <completely cataloged for researchers, handled with cotton gloves, and <restored and operated according to all of the rules of thumb for museums?) This is a good thing. No, few of us do the kid gloves. Likely I offend many because I actually run them, use them and occasionally modify them. <The problem is that some of those "what if"s tend to be rather <offensively written, often using blanket statements that immediately put <people in a defensive position. Nobody likes that. Yep, somethimes they also have to look at the concern and understand it even if poorly written. For example one my worries is what happens if the company falls on hard times, collections have costs like storage or people and if a company falls on hard times...could that be the first to go? Have they provided for continuence? The successes exist to say that it does happen. But, I ask what outside influences were ther to make this happen. <No, I have never heard you lash out at the scrappers, but many others <have (that is why the original post was split up - same concept from two <different people). There have been a great number of posts badmouthing <the scrappers in the past, and yesterday, another one came up. Scrappers is business. In the past I've used them to get metal stock and the like for bargan prices compared to dealers. Still that does mean pay a fair price. Like the guy with the smashed radio I had to learn what that means, however my father was one to mediate my stupdity then so WE the scrapper and I both got what we wanted. I know. <And, no, scrappers can make a lot of money off of the gold. The average <desktop PeeCee contains 2 to 9 dollars worth at today's price. Obviously, <the big systems are the cash cows. There is value, for effort and work. Like anything they are diamonds in the rough and recycling the materials is a necessary thing. <Now here we go again. Calling this imaginary person a "dope" is really <bad form. Does he deserve to be called a "dope", simply because he is <working 55 hours a week, and his boss tells him to get rid of the old No excuse both ways. However waste is a general thing. In this day of recycling maybe it fits. <system because they need the floorspace (and sometimes power)? I have <been in this situation many times, working in computer rooms around the <country. I did not have a few hours to devote to trying to find equipment <good homes, even if it was on my own time. Pretty much the best one can <do is put out a post to the list or the newsgroups, and hope someone can <fit _into_ the schedule. Ah, but you did! There is lies the difference. <I figured that word would come up. No, you can say whatever you like to <others, individual or corporate. Just be sure you know what the <consequences are, and that they may effect you, a group, or the whole <collecting scene as a whole. I, for one, think that being group labelled an <"elitist whiner" is not a good thing. "Respectable collector" sounds much <nicer, but I think the former label is what we are headed towards due to <the attitudes of many on this list. Well oh, I see. I'm very uncomfortable with that whole presentation. Maybe you need to reread and think what you have said over as well with consideration of your own views. From the otherside of the glass it sounds no better. I'd think I fit neither. I'm a used hardware user. Very little of what I've gathered is "collection" much of it is my old stuff that is sentimental more than historically important. Then again maybe why they are historically important. Museums and collectors are apparently the other guy. Like I've said before, much of what I have is satisfying a wish to run and tinker with systems I could never afford when new. Different mindset I'd guess. One additional point. Museums of my past were sterile plases where don't touch was the operating word, glass cases, rails to keep distance. I understand why. However, this is emotional so stay with me, computers especially old ones through the early 70s were always behind the glass. Many people were held at bay by the resulting priesthood and classism that resulted. Only the privileged got to touch or run them. Keeping (making?) the older ones touchable is an important task that coperate sponsers may or may not understand. Just a thought. Allison