18 Apr
2011
18 Apr
'11
5:44 p.m.
Well, a few more bizarre things to report:
I tried to disable interrupt sources as suggested. The only one, apparently, was the
DL11-W SLU/LTC card which was set for both functions. The card was reconfigured to be
"SLU Only". No change in behaviour. The DL11-W console is set for address
177560, vector 60.
Next, there are three memory cards: one M7847-DJ (16K*18 MOS, MS11-JP), one "Motorola
memory systems" card with 48K words, and one "MOSTEK memory systems" card
with 96K words. Both the two later cards use 4116 DRAM chips.
Tried to use the M7847-DJ card alone (after all, RT-11SJ should run on 16KW of memory).
Reconfigured the card address to start at 0 and verified that it occupies addresses 000000
to 077777 via the front panel. When the machine it turned on, the display reads
"054207" (this was not expected). Tried booting using the bootstrap on the
M9301-YB card: the heads don't engage at all and the program halts rapidly displaying
"173764" ... BIZARRE since that is a non-existent address.
Next, tried the Motorola memory card which was already configured to start at 0. When the
CPU is powered-on, displays "000002" on the display. Tried to boot the disk,
heads engage, a few steps of the disk heads, and halts again at "005134".
Finally, tried the MOSTEK memory card. Reconfigured to start at 0, and verified that
addresses 000000 through 377777 are occupied by RAM. Powers up with a display of 000002
and halts at 005134 when a boot is attempted.
The system is now stripped during testing, consisting of the following:
Slot 1/2 = CPU, Slot 3=M7859 Panel interface and M9301-YB bootstrap/terminator, Slot
4=memory, slot 5&6&7 empty (with a grant continuity card in D), slot 8=M7856
SLU/LTC, slot 9=M9302 at the unibus end and M7846 RX-01 interface.
Originally, had three memory cards in slots 4&5&6.
Now I'm just puzzled.
Question: Should the unit power-up with "000002"?
As I was typing this, had a thought about slots: I recall reading something about not
putting memory into slot 9. So, I moved the RX-01 controller to slot 6 (and moved the
grant card in slot 9D). Now, when powered-up with the Motorola or Mostek memory cards,
displays "000000" but otherwise no changes in booting behaviour. When the
MS11-JP RAM was installed instead, displays "177777" once, "163776"
the next time (when powered up), and still absolutely nothing when boot is attempted (i.e.
no heads engaging at all).
Is there something about RT-11 5.04 that I am not aware-of? An it was suggested that
there is a difference between the Unibus and Q-Bus boot ... any thoughts on that one?
I can't see memory being the issue anyway: sure, 16KW might be an issue (and that card
might even be 'flaky'), but the other two cards are large enough.
I suppose I could try an older copy of RT-11 however 5.04 is the only one I currently have
which also has DX.SYS and DU.SYS drivers (allowing me to make a bootable copy on my LSI-11
system which has an MSCP drive ... I believe previous versions of RT-11 lacked MSCP
"DU" device support?).
Cheers! Mark
>
> Thanks for the suggestions so far. I tried a few things with the =
> following to report:
>
> I verified the copy of RT-11 on RX-01 floppy. It boots fine on the LSI-11 =
> system it was built on, tried "BOOT RT11SJ" as well as with the
"/FOREIGN" =
> option and it ran fine on that system (which has an M7946 controller). =
> The drive is configured for RX-01 mode only (since these are the only =
> controllers I have in both Q-Bus and Unibus flavour).
>
> Now, put that same drive on the 11/34 CPU with an M7846 card. Checked the =
> CPU carefully: NPG jumpers are all intact on the backplane (CA1-CA2) and =
> all unused slot D's have a grant continuity card. Just to ensure it works =
> I reconfigured the console for 9600 baud (originally 300) and ran a simple =
> "echo" program loaded at 001000 which runs fine (so it can store programs
=
> in memory and the execute them). The system has loads of memory - three =
> cards with 16K, 48KW, and 96kW on them - so I did a quick check at =
> locations 100000 and 700000 and memory is certainly there.
Some random thoughts
What devices do you have in the 11/34 system? An RX11,
obviously. A
DL11-something (but what?) for the console port. Anything else?
Obviously the console and the RX11 must be at the right
I/O addresses for
the system to get as far as it has. What about the interrupt vector
settings? Are those correct. Could it be falling over when it enables
interrupts on some device, the interurpt comes along and the vector is
not what's expected so it goes to thw wrong routine.
You have an M9301 at the CPU end of the bus. What, if
any, terminator do
you have at the other end? Unibus (unlike Q-bus, normally) is terminated
at both ends.
Could it be a bad memory location? RT11SJ doesn't
need much RAM to boot,
so perhaps you could try yor memory boards one at a time, each one set to
start at location 0, and see if that helps.
-tony
Professor Mark Csele, P.Eng.
Niagara College, Canada
300 Woodlawn Rd., L-23
Welland, ON, L3C 7L3
(905) 735-2211 x.7629
E-Mail: mcsele at niagarac.on.ca
URL: http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele
Author of "Fundamentals of Light Sources and Lasers", Wiley, 2004
19 Apr
19 Apr
11:08 a.m.
Hi Mark,
I don't remember what the difference would be, but I seem to recall
the MS11-JP might have a parity enable/disable switch on it. The
parity control card is seperate, and you did not mention it. Also, do
you have a M9302 terminator?
Good Luck, Paul
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Mark Csele <mcsele at niagaracollege.ca> wrote:
Well, a few more bizarre things to report:
I tried to disable interrupt sources as suggested. ?The only one, apparently, was the
DL11-W SLU/LTC card which was set for both functions. ?The card was reconfigured to be
"SLU Only". ?No change in behaviour. ?The DL11-W console is set for address
177560, vector 60.
Next, there are three memory cards: one M7847-DJ (16K*18 MOS, MS11-JP), one
"Motorola memory systems" card with 48K words, and one "MOSTEK memory
systems" card with 96K words. ?Both the two later cards use 4116 DRAM chips.
Tried to use the M7847-DJ card alone (after all, RT-11SJ should run on 16KW of memory).
?Reconfigured the card address to start at 0 and verified that it occupies addresses
000000 to 077777 via the front panel. ?When the machine it turned on, the display reads
"054207" (this was not expected). ?Tried booting using the bootstrap on the
M9301-YB card: the heads don't engage at all and the program halts rapidly displaying
"173764" ... BIZARRE since that is a non-existent address.
Next, tried the Motorola memory card which was already configured to start at 0. ?When
the CPU is powered-on, displays "000002" on the display. ?Tried to boot the
disk, heads engage, a few steps of the disk heads, and halts again at "005134".
Finally, tried the MOSTEK memory card. ?Reconfigured to start at 0, and verified that
addresses 000000 through 377777 are occupied by RAM. ?Powers up with a display of 000002
and halts at 005134 when a boot is attempted.
The system is now stripped during testing, consisting of the following:
Slot 1/2 = CPU, Slot 3=M7859 Panel interface and M9301-YB bootstrap/terminator, Slot
4=memory, slot 5&6&7 empty (with a grant continuity card in D), slot 8=M7856
SLU/LTC, slot 9=M9302 at the unibus end and M7846 RX-01 interface.
Originally, had three memory cards in slots 4&5&6.
Now I'm just puzzled.
Question: Should the unit power-up with "000002"?
As I was typing this, had a thought about slots: I recall reading something about not
putting memory into slot 9. ?So, I moved the RX-01 controller to slot 6 (and moved the
grant card in slot 9D). ?Now, when powered-up with the Motorola or Mostek memory cards,
displays "000000" but otherwise no changes in booting behaviour. ?When the
MS11-JP RAM was installed instead, displays "177777" once, "163776"
the next time (when powered up), and still absolutely nothing when boot is attempted (i.e.
no heads engaging at all).
Is there something about RT-11 5.04 that I am not aware-of? ?An it was suggested that
there is a difference between the Unibus and Q-Bus boot ... any thoughts on that one?
I can't see memory being the issue anyway: sure, 16KW might be an issue (and that
card might even be 'flaky'), but the other two cards are large enough.
I suppose I could try an older copy of RT-11 however 5.04 is the only one I currently
have which also has DX.SYS and DU.SYS drivers (allowing me to make a bootable copy on my
LSI-11 system which has an MSCP drive ... I believe previous versions of RT-11 lacked MSCP
"DU" device support?).
Cheers! Mark
>
> Thanks for the suggestions so far. ?I tried a few things with the =
> following to report:
>
> I verified the copy of RT-11 on RX-01 floppy. ?It boots fine on the LSI-11 =
> system it was built on, tried "BOOT RT11SJ" as well as with the
"/FOREIGN" =
> option and it ran fine on that system (which has an M7946 controller). ?=
> The drive is configured for RX-01 mode only (since these are the only =
> controllers I have in both Q-Bus and Unibus flavour).
>
> Now, put that same drive on the 11/34 CPU with an M7846 card. ?Checked the =
> CPU carefully: NPG jumpers are all intact on the backplane (CA1-CA2) and =
> all unused slot D's have a grant continuity card. ?Just to ensure it works =
> I reconfigured the console for 9600 baud (originally 300) and ran a simple =
> "echo" program loaded at 001000 which runs fine (so it can store programs
=
> in memory and the execute them). ?The system has loads of memory - three =
> cards with 16K, 48KW, and 96kW on them - so I did a quick check at =
> locations 100000 and 700000 and memory is certainly there.
Some random thoughts
What devices do you have in the 11/34 system? An
RX11, obviously. A
DL11-something (but what?) for the console port. Anything else?
Obviously the console and the RX11 must be at the
right I/O addresses for
the system to get as far as it has. What about the interrupt vector
settings? Are those correct. Could it be falling over when it enables
interrupts on some device, the interurpt comes along and the vector is
not what's expected so it goes to thw wrong routine.
You have an M9301 at the CPU end of the bus. What,
if any, terminator do
you have at the other end? Unibus (unlike Q-bus, normally) is terminated
at both ends.
Could it be a bad memory location? RT11SJ
doesn't need much RAM to boot,
so perhaps you could try yor memory boards one at a time, each one set to
start at location 0, and see if that helps.
-tony
Professor Mark Csele, P.Eng.
Niagara College, Canada
300 Woodlawn Rd., L-23
Welland, ON, L3C 7L3
(905) 735-2211?x.7629
E-Mail: mcsele at niagarac.on.ca
URL: http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele
Author of "Fundamentals of Light Sources and Lasers", Wiley, 2004
1:45 p.m.
Well, a few more bizarre things to report:
I tried to disable interrupt sources as suggested. The only one, =
apparently, was the DL11-W SLU/LTC card which was set for both functions. =
The card was reconfigured to be "SLU Only". No change in behaviour. The =
DL11-W console is set for address 177560, vector 60.
The console will geneate 2 iterrupt vectors (60 and 64 I think) for
transmit and receive. They cannont be set separately, so if the DL11-W is
working properly, that's OK.
The RX11 will also generate interrupts. What's it set to?
Next, there are three memory cards: one M7847-DJ (16K*18 MOS, MS11-JP), =
one "Motorola memory systems" card with 48K words, and one "MOSTEK memory
=
systems" card with 96K words. Both the two later cards use 4116 DRAM =
chips.
Hang on a second. You've got 16Kw + 48Kw + 96kw there. That's 160Kw
total. The PDP11/34 (it is an 11/34 IRIC) has 18 bit addressing and can
access a total of 128kw. 4Kw are used for the I/O space, so you have have
a maximum of 124kw of memory (practically, most memory boards wil
lautomatically disable themselves in the I/O space, so you could fit a
pair of 64Kw boards, say,m without problems). But with your configuration
you must have some locations addressing 2 boards, which is not a good thing.
Tried to use the M7847-DJ card alone (after all, RT-11SJ should run on =
16KW of memory). Reconfigured the card address to start at 0 and verified =
that it occupies addresses 000000 to 077777 via the front panel. When the =
machine it turned on, the display reads "054207" (this was not expected). =
Tried booting using the bootstrap on the M9301-YB card: the heads don't =
engage at all and the program halts rapidly displaying "173764" ... =
BIZARRE since that is a non-existent address.
Is it? Remeebr the address show is the 16 bit program counter address. If
the MMU is disabled (which it will be on power-up, and nothing is going
to enable it), addresses starting 16 or 17 are mapped to the I/O space at
76 or 77. So that address is 773764. Which I think is in the bootstrap
ROM.
Next, tried the Motorola memory card which was already configured to start =
at 0. When the CPU is powered-on, displays "000002" on the display. =
Tried to boot the disk, heads engage, a few steps of the disk heads, and =
halts again at "005134".
Finally, tried the MOSTEK memory card. Reconfigured to start at 0, and =
verified that addresses 000000 through 377777 are occupied by RAM. Powers =
up with a display of 000002 and halts at 005134 when a boot is attempted.
The system is now stripped during testing, consisting of the following:
Slot 1/2 =3D CPU, Slot 3=3DM7859 Panel interface and M9301-YB bootstrap/ter=
minator, Slot 4=3Dmemory, slot 5&6&7 empty (with a grant continuity card =
in D), slot 8=3DM7856 SLU/LTC, slot 9=3DM9302 at the unibus end and M7846 =
RX-01 interface.
That sounds OK.
As I was typing this, had a thought about slots: I
recall reading =
something about not putting memory into slot 9. So, I moved the RX-01 =
Yes, The reason is that memroy boards are MUD (Modified Unibus Device)
boards and take their signals from connectors A,B (this matters on
machines like the 11/44 which have a 22 bit address bus, and where the
addres lines on A,B are not the same as those on E). Device controllers
(SPCs -- Small Peripheral Controller) take their signals from C-F. On
slot 9, the A/B conenctors are the Unibus output to the next backplane
(or for a terminaotr) and are not qurie the same signals as the ones on
an MUD slot. In fact I think on some machines you can short out a power
rail by putting an MUD card in the Unibus Out slot or a termintor in an
MUD slot.
controller to slot 6 (and moved the grant card in slot
9D). Now, when =
powered-up with the Motorola or Mostek memory cards, displays "000000" but =
otherwise no changes in booting behaviour. When the MS11-JP RAM was =
installed instead, displays "177777" once, "163776" the next time
(when =
powered up), and still absolutely nothing when boot is attempted (i.e. no =
heads engaging at all).
Is there something about RT-11 5.04 that I am not aware-of? An it was =
suggested that there is a difference between the Unibus and Q-Bus boot ... =
any thoughts on that one? =20
I've never heard of that being a problem...
I can't see memory being the issue anyway: sure, 16KW might be an issue =
(and that card might even be 'flaky'), but the other two cards are large =
enough.
Silly question... Whenever I hear of a PDP11 wit flaky memeory I think of
the time I was led a merry dance by my 11/45. It turns out the problem
ther was power supply related (one ofthe 5V lines was sitting at 4.4V).
Have tyoy checked all the power supply voltages with the machine in
operation?
-tony
4997
days inactive
4997
days old
2 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
mcsele＠niagaracollege.ca -
useddec＠gmail.com