Rumor has it that 9000 VAX may have mentioned these words: Not ATX... think "laptop." There are some mini-ITX motherboards that use laptop-type power supplies - external, 1 or *maybe* 2 voltages on the pins, and an external LED to actually show if the sucker's got power & working. That is the dark LED that tells Sellam the PS (and in this case, PoS) is no worky. Very handy if you want a small, very quiet, yet somewhat powerful PC. Somewhat in this case means: Laptop < mini-ITX < Desktop PC I'm looking at one to build a new TiVo out of. JDR's got a decent deal on a VIA (think: "Used to been Cyrix") 1GHz box for <$300. Quiet is good when you want to watch TV. ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch at 30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.