31 Oct
2016
31 Oct
'16
11:04 a.m.
Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
31 Oct
31 Oct
5:22 p.m.
Pete,
I think I might have a few Kinetic CAMAC brochures and user manuals. I'll
have to dig around but if you don't have another source, maybe I can scan
them. We had a 2 large crates in our testing lab that I kick myself for not
taking. I had no use for them but it's still some interesting hardware. We
had a couple of old IBM XTs interfaced to them.
Regards, Brian.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Pete Lancashire <pete at petelancashire.com>
wrote:
Over the years I've played around with a few old
CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
5:41 p.m.
New subject: Looking for info on a CAMAC <other odd DEC boards> <ebay warning>
On 10/31/2016 5:22 PM, Brian Marstella wrote:
Pete,
<snip>
Regards, Brian.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Pete Lancashire <pete at petelancashire.com>
wrote:
> Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
> today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
> story. Recently
> I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board.
<snip>
I might mention there are some Tektronix to DEC boards, maybe Unibus on
ebay if anyone has specialized Tek hardware that could be run by DEC.
I don't know any more than that, but am curious if anyone has any ideas
about what devices Tektronix had with DEC PDP11s integrated in.
When I was first in school, there was a large system with what I'd guess
was a larger PDP11 system (we had PDP 11/05 demos on another track to
give time frame, 71-72).
The system Tektronix had was essentially what we'd call a sampling scope
now with an elaborate tube to digitize samples, and the PDP 11 analyzing
them. Don't think it was ever a product, but it was massive, several
bays. Out local EE and IEEE groups arranged for the demo to stop at our
school.
I believe there were FlipChip type boards listed, but am not seeing them
right now. Boards below are clearly not for DEC boxes.
thanks
Jim
Tektronix-P1B-R1340-TO-PDP-11-670-3317-02-SA3841-00-Multi-Interrupt-Interface-/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282002158488
Lot-of-3-Tektronix-670-3317-02-P3B-R1340-TO-PDP-11-670-3263-03-Multi-Interrup-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351702173881
6:55 p.m.
On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Over the years I've played around with a few old
CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story.
Well, actually, there are still a fair amount of CAMAC
modules used in various research labs.
Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
We had a 2911 and a 3911 (I think) at Washington University
in St. Louis. in fact, I'm pretty sure it is STILL on a
shelf in my office. We haven't used it in about 20 years.
I think the 2911 was a set of boards to connect an ISA-bus
PC to a CAMAC crate controller. Anyway, there are two
parts, one plugs into the CAMAC crate master slots (24 and
25) and the other plugs into the bus of choice (Unibus,
Q-bus or ISA, for instance).
Actually, CAMAC is well documented, as it is an
international standard. Slot 25 has "N" wires that select a
slot
(1 - 24) to be accessed. Each slot has an A address and a F
(function) address that can be read or written.
Slots 1-24 are wired with a 24-bit read bus and a 24-bit
write bus. There is also a LAM (look at me) bus that works
like an interrupt scheme. The 3912 plugs into slots 24 and
25. It was used very widely in nuclear research, but also
in large industrial process control systems.
I'll check at work tomorrow, I think we might still have the
manuals for some of these modules.
Jon
1 Nov
1 Nov
3:38 a.m.
On 10/31/2016 07:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Over the years I've played around with a few old
CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
Zero value? But they look nice.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
I *might* have
some CAMAC related stuff - what exactly are you looking for?
Philipp
2 Nov
2 Nov
8:24 a.m.
On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Over the years I've played around with a few old
CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate
controller at work. I also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11
crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953.
These have schematics in them.
I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.
Jon
9:52 a.m.
I'd like to add them to bitsavers if you can scan them.
I just threw out most of the CAMAC stuff that I had. Weird Stuff should have two crates
that I dumped off yesterday.
I was going to use it for reading tapes, but it doesn't make sense given the higher
performace inexpensive A/Ds you
can get today.
I did try to find docs when I was looking for this stuff 10 years ago, so there is some
stuff under pdf/kinetics and others.
On 11/2/16 8:24 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary
crate controller at work. I also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11
crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953. These have schematics in
them.
6:16 p.m.
On 11/02/2016 11:52 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
I'd like to add them to bitsavers if you can scan
them.
I just threw out most of the CAMAC stuff that I had. Weird Stuff should have two crates
that I dumped off yesterday.
Well, the drawings are big sheets (at least C size)
diazo
prints in really awful condition. You've probably seen
these, they take the master engineering drawings, diazo
duplicate, eradicate old circuits and draw in new, and
repeat for 5+ generations, and they get almost unreadable.
So, I'm not sure what results I'd get, but I'd have to do it
in little panels and then assemble. It might be better to
send it to somebody with better equipment.
We still use a bit of CAMAC only because we have the
infrastructure to do it.
Jon
10:53 a.m.
In a past life I did quite a few Test & Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.
In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.
For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.
Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?
On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for NIM
& CAMAC.
-pete
On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Over the years I've played around with a few
old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate controller at
work. I
also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11 crate controller and 2912
LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953. These have schematics in them.
I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.
Jon
6:23 p.m.
On 11/02/2016 12:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
In a past life I did quite a few Test &
Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.
In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.
For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.
Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?
On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for NIM
& CAMAC.
This gear DOES turn up frequently on eBay for reasonable
prices. We supply our lab's needs for replacement bins and
crates that way. I used to build CAMAC modules for nuclear
research as a business. I made my own crate and crate
controller for module testing. It was just the backplane,
no card slots, which was fine to have access to probe the
boards.
Jon
7:40 p.m.
For me starting in my early 20's at a Test & Measurement company, (btw at
one time has to option to buy DEC) and being in the division that stuck a
PDP11/40 (eventually a 11/84) in a rack along a bunch of T&M I've been from
time to time collecting, specially from what I consider the boom years, the
mid 60's to the 70's. Just like the place I worked and the half dozen
NIM/Camac companies the lives of those who made other a success are the
unsung hero's.
d
On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 11/02/2016 12:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
In a past life I did quite a few Test &
Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.
In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.
For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.
Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?
On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for
NIM
& CAMAC.
This gear DOES turn up frequently on eBay for reasonable prices. We
supply our
lab's needs for replacement bins and crates that way. I used to
build CAMAC modules for nuclear research as a business. I made my own
crate and crate controller for module testing. It was just the backplane,
no card slots, which was fine to have access to probe the boards.
Jon
7:41 p.m.
For me starting in my early 20's at a Test & Measurement company, (btw at
one time has to option to buy DEC) and being in the division that stuck a
PDP11/40 (eventually a 11/84) in a rack along a bunch of T&M I've been from
time to time collecting, specially from what I consider the boom years, the
mid 60's to the 70's. Just like the place I worked and the half dozen
NIM/Camac companies the lives of those who made other a success are the
unsung hero's.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 11/02/2016 12:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
In a past life I did quite a few Test &
Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.
In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.
For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.
Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?
On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for
NIM
& CAMAC.
This gear DOES turn up frequently on eBay for reasonable prices. We
supply our
lab's needs for replacement bins and crates that way. I used to
build CAMAC modules for nuclear research as a business. I made my own
crate and crate controller for module testing. It was just the backplane,
no card slots, which was fine to have access to probe the boards.
Jon
3 Nov
3 Nov
10:31 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jon Elson
Sent: 02 November 2016 16:24
To: General at classiccmp.org; Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller
On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
I just wish I could remember any of this, and I have lost contact with my colleagues who
might have remembered.
When I worked at NERC they were used for most everything, generally in conjunction with a
PDP-11 or LSI-11.
We had Media Conversion Systems that took various tapes from Scientific Data Recorders and
converted them to standard paper tape or 9-track mag tape.
"HASP" work stations with Card Readers, Line Printers & Tape drives.
Terminal Concentrators with multiple HP26xx terminals that could connect to our Honeywell
or VAX systems.
Some were used as Front End Processors on the Honeywell.
By the time I started most were lsi11-03 or 23 modules that fitted into the end slot on
the CAMAC crate.
They were generally loaded from Paper Tape or sometimes PROM boards which I think emulated
Paper Tape or something stupid....
There is a manual for one of the RJE stations here:-
http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/392339/
and this paper contains info on how to convert some data using a PDP11-05 based media
conversion system
http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/392307/1/1188056-1001.pdf
I hope these are interesting
Dave Wade
Over the years I've played around with a few
old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's
another story. Recently I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A
Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.
So .. anyone have the manual ?
(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_C
ontr
ol
I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate controller at work. I
also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11 crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus
adapter and the 3953.
These have schematics in them.
I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.
Jon
2923
days inactive
2926
days old
12 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
brian＠marstella.net -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
hachti＠hachti.de -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
pete＠petelancashire.com