6 Apr
2007
6 Apr
'07
1:32 p.m.
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that, although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA
SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
PS: If anyone knows of any sources for the ADP50 or similarly functional
8-bit ISA IDE adapters, that would be much appreciated as well. Thanks!
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
6 Apr
6 Apr
4:52 p.m.
On Apr 6, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI
adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be
great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000 cards. They both
work well and have onboard BIOSes.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
7 Apr
7 Apr
12:19 a.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000
cards. They both
work well and have onboard BIOSes.
Dave,
I've never heard if the Always card, but the Adaptec 1542x cards are
16-bit ISA cards. I know some 16-bit ISA video cards will work in an
8-bit slot, but I've never heard of scsi cards being able to do
that..... he did say he's working on a 5150. Maybe you were thinking
8-bit scsi?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
12:10 p.m.
On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:19 AM, C Fernandez wrote:
I was indeed...I completely missed his 8-bit ISA requirement; I
must've been tired. :-(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I've
used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000 cards. They
both work well and have onboard BIOSes.
I've never heard if the Always card, but the Adaptec 1542x cards
are 16-bit ISA cards. I know some 16-bit ISA video cards will work
in an 8-bit slot, but I've never heard of scsi cards being able to
do that..... he did say he's working on a 5150. Maybe you were
thinking 8-bit scsi? 
12:33 a.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Apr 6, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
I think he meant 8-bit ISA, not 8-bit SCSI. :^)
Or do the 15xx cards work in an 8-bit slot?
I have a Future Domain TMC-870 and a TMC-855, which Adaptec claims
are both 8-bit ISA, even though the 885 has 16-bit fingers. Both have
enough BIOS to boot DOS 6.22 from hard disk without drivers. Incredibly
enough, Adaptec also has utilities and CD-ROM drivers for both cards.
They both also have 2 FDC channels, but only the TMC-870 has BIOS
support for drives 2 and 3. There's a driver floating around for the
TMC-885's second channel, but it needs hacking to work. When I get the
proverbial free minute, I intend to put the 870 into a Tandy 1000 and
see if it flies.
Doc
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized
that, although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000 cards. They both
work well and have onboard BIOSes. 
12:44 a.m.
On Apr 6, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
> I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that, although my MFM
> hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
> from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI
> adapters by
> model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
If you're interested in an SCSI adapter-only card (no floppy
support), a Trantor (or Adaptec) T130/AHA130 or T160/MA160 is pretty
good. Boot ROM is optional, so be careful.
I really liked the DTC 3180 (with floppy controller) and 3150
(without) cards. IIRC, the 3180 will allow you to place 3 floppy
drives on a single 34-conductor cable. I've got the docs somewhere
for many of the DTC controllers. These had boot ROMs.
There were other controllers basically using the same NCR chip for
scanners and the like (no boot ROM) and also the card (I think just
called PC2) that came with Bernoulli drives (has boot ROM).
The Seagate ST01 and ST02 controllers were other early PC 8-bit ISA
controllers. I've got an ST01 but was never able to make it work
with any of my (non-Seagate) drives.
While I can't recall, I believe that Future Domain had an 8-bit ISA
controller and Ultrastor may also have had one. I can check my old
catalogs to see. The biggest problem for some of these is finding
drivers.
Cheers,
Chuck
4:56 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
If you're interested in an SCSI adapter-only card
(no floppy
support), a Trantor (or Adaptec) T130/AHA130 or T160/MA160 is pretty
good. Boot ROM is optional, so be careful.
T160 is 16-bit only, but good catch about the T130, I'll look for that,
thanks.
I really liked the DTC 3180 (with floppy controller)
and 3150
(without) cards. IIRC, the 3180 will allow you to place 3 floppy
drives on a single 34-conductor cable. I've got the docs somewhere
for many of the DTC controllers. These had boot ROMs.
3180 is 16-bit only. 3150 is 8-bit, so I'll look for that too, thanks.
While I can't recall, I believe that Future Domain
had an 8-bit ISA
controller and Ultrastor may also have had one. I can check my old
catalogs to see. The biggest problem for some of these is finding
drivers.
But with a boot ROM I don't need drivers, yes? As for Future Domain,
they seem rare but any TMC-8XX seems like it will work. All Ultrastors
were 16-bit so those are out.
Thanks for the suggestions.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
1:59 a.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Apr 6, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
Don't those have 16-bit ISA interfaces? Do they work in 8-bit mode (ie.
if you plug them into an 8-bit slot)? Adaptec 1510 docs from 1991
suggest AT or later...
The Always IN-2000 only supports IRQs above 9 so that clearly won't work
in a PC or XT...
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized
that, although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000 cards. They both
work well and have onboard BIOSes. 
8:57 a.m.
In 04/18/2004 I sold my two ISA 8 bit SCSI based on NCR 53C90/53C90A chips,
both with boot BIOS. My paypal account recorded the model numbers:
Storage Dimensions SDC801
Control Concepts HB-A8
regards,
vax, 9000
On 4/7/07, Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote:
Don't those have 16-bit ISA interfaces? Do they work in 8-bit mode (ie.
if you plug them into an 8-bit slot)? Adaptec 1510 docs from 1991
suggest AT or later...
The Always IN-2000 only supports IRQs above 9 so that clearly won't work
in a PC or XT...
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
On Apr 6, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
> I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that, although my MFM
> hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
> from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
> model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
>
> Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great
if
I
didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000 cards. They both
work well and have onboard BIOSes.
12:08 p.m.
On Apr 7, 2007, at 1:59 AM, Jim Leonard wrote:
Don't those have 16-bit ISA interfaces? Do they work in 8-bit mode
(ie. if you plug them into an 8-bit slot)? Adaptec 1510 docs from
1991 suggest AT or later...
The Always IN-2000 only supports IRQs above 9 so that clearly won't
work in a PC or XT...
I'm sorry, I totally missed the "8-bit" requirement. :-(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI
drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI
adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be
great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or
software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've used Adaptec 1542B/1542C and Always IN-2000
cards. They
both work well and have onboard BIOSes. 
8:41 a.m.
From: "Jim Leonard"
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
I know the ST-01 and ST-02 (cant remember the manufacturer). If I'm not very
much mistaken, the ST-01 can only address op to 100 cylinders. The ST-01 has
a PROM possibility.
Then there is the OMTI 512 from SMS. It has a 50-pin connector for internal
drives, and a SUBD 37 pin for external connections. I have the documentation
for the 512, if you need it
Nico
10:17 a.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
PS: If anyone knows of any sources for the ADP50 or similarly functional
8-bit ISA IDE adapters, that would be much appreciated as well. Thanks!
Seagate
ST-02
(I'm pretty sure that was the model designation)
I used a couple of them years ago... might have one buried around here
still,
but it would take an incredible effort to find it if still here.
-- Curt
5:10 p.m.
Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote:
Seagate ST-02
Aren't the ST-01 and ST-02 not ASPI compatible?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
6:17 p.m.
On 7 Apr 2007 at 16:10, Jim Leonard wrote:
Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote:
I've never seen an ASPI driver for them, but then, the ST01 (no
floppy connector) and ST02 (floppy connector) are the only
controllers that I've ever seen that use the particular TI chip
(marked 11746-501 CF61891FN).
Cheers,
Chuck
Seagate ST-02
Aren't the ST-01 and ST-02 not ASPI compatible? 
2:04 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: 8-bit ISA SCSI cards?
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
PS: If anyone knows of any sources for the ADP50 or similarly functional
8-bit ISA IDE adapters, that would be much appreciated as well. Thanks!
--
I have a VVSCD-08 V1.2 card with a Future Domain TMC-950 chip on it. IRQ can
be set to 3,4,5,9 but I only see the TMC chip on it so if there is no ROM
its probably not bootable. The oldest ISA machine I currently have is a
386/40, if you want me to connect a drive to the card and see if its
bootable let me know.
I have another 8 bit card but its for external SCSI only, are you trying for
an Internal drive?
Someday if I snag an XT or Tandy 1000 Desktop I plan on using the 8 bit
SCSI as well as an 8 bit Paradise VGA card in it. Having CGA and VGA on the
same machine with dual monitors would be kind of interesting.
TZ
5:15 p.m.
Teo Zenios wrote:
I have a VVSCD-08 V1.2 card with a Future Domain
TMC-950 chip on it.
16-bit only, but thank you for offering, I appreciate it.
Having CGA and VGA on the
same machine with dual monitors would be kind of interesting.
It certainly would be, considering that it's impossible :-) CGA and VGA
both have adapter RAM at B800:0000. You can still do dual-monitor, but
it would have to be Mono/Herc and CGA or Mono/Herc and VGA. Mono/Herc
has RAM at B000:0000 and doesn't overlap. Many debuggers support this
configuration.
Someday if I snag an XT or Tandy 1000 Desktop I plan
on using the 8
bit SCSI as well as an 8 bit Paradise VGA card in it.
You can't put VGA into a Tandy 1000 because the Tandy video cannot be
disabled, IIRC. There were a few Tandy 1000 models that had VGA
onboard, but while they supported Tandy 3-voice sound+DAC, they did not
support Tandy 16-color graphics.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
6:11 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
That reminds me...
Interrupt list (e.g. at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ralf/files.html) and scroll
down a bit to "RBdualVGA":
A set of programs for using two color SuperVGA cards in one PC. Includes
a TSR for swapping between displays and blanking both screens when the
system is not being used.
.. anyone know how the heck that works? I don't get how you can even boot a
system with two video boards that are going to both expect to have ROM code
and ports at the same addresses. Even if you could somehow disable the BIOS on
one of them, there's still a bunch of conflicting port addresses to worry about.
cheers
Jules
Having CGA and
VGA on the
same machine with dual monitors would be kind of interesting.
It certainly would be, considering that it's impossible :-) CGA and VGA
both have adapter RAM at B800:0000.
11:42 p.m.
On 7 Apr 2007 at 17:11, Jules Richardson wrote:
.. anyone know how the heck that works? I don't
get how you can even boot a
system with two video boards that are going to both expect to have ROM code
and ports at the same addresses. Even if you could somehow disable the BIOS on
one of them, there's still a bunch of conflicting port addresses to worry about.
Note that this is for "two *PCI* VGA cards". PCI differs from ISA in
that addresses for ISA cards are pretty much fixed or changed by
switches; PCI addresses are assigned by the BIOS; each PCI device has
its own configuration registers.
You can mix two ISA display adapters, but only so that there are no
I/O port or address conflicts. So, two VGAs would be prohibited,
but a VGA and an MDA should be a permitted combination, for example.
Cheers,
Chuck
8 Apr
8 Apr
2:31 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
.. anyone know how the heck that works? I don't
get how you can even
"System Requirements: A PCI-bus computer with two PCI-bus VGA cards
installed."
PCI bus. That's how.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
5:50 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:
I can understand the bus handling it - but I would have thought every PC BIOS
out there is written to expect a single video card on the PCI bus at boot time
and to throw a major fit when it finds what *it* thinks is a conflict.
Maybe I'm wrong; my assumption was that the BIOS would scan the bus and say
something like: "ahh, you're a such-and-such class of hardware, locate your
I/O here please" and would then choke when it tried to stick two video boards
in the same place.
Obviously it doesn't work like that though or that code wouldn't have been
written :-)
.. anyone know how the heck that works? I
don't get how you can even
"System Requirements: A PCI-bus computer with two PCI-bus VGA cards
installed."
9:27 p.m.
On 8 Apr 2007 at 16:50, Jules Richardson wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong; my assumption was that the BIOS
would scan the bus and say
something like: "ahh, you're a such-and-such class of hardware, locate your
I/O here please" and would then choke when it tried to stick two video boards
in the same place.
Ah, but when you're dealing with PCI video cards, only the first one
is initialized if there's a possible conflict of resources (such as a
BIOS extension ROM). The two-monitor trick initializes the second
one when the switcher program is loaded. As far as I can tell, no
BIOS extension ROM is executed for that one.
Clearly, you'll be better off if the cards are of the same type, or
at least share compatibility in the video modes that you'll be using.
Cheers,
Chuck
4:33 a.m.
New subject: moreorlessOT: TMP68301-AF16 programming info
Dear sirs,
I'll have to reverse engineer parts of a computer (still don't know what
it is) that uses the TMP68301-AF16 processor from Toshiba. I know the M68K
uses that, but I found virtually no info besides a pinout of the processor.
Anyone has a programming/hardware manual willing to share? Or any info? I'll
need to have its code emulated on a PC.
Thanks a lot,
Alexandre Souza
7 Apr
7 Apr
3:39 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
I'm restoring a few more 5150s and realized that,
although my MFM
hardware stores are being depleted, I'm just maggoty with SCSI drives,
from 40MB to 18GB. Can anyone recommend any 8-bit ISA SCSI adapters by
model, name, or whatever I can use to search for them on ebay?
Also, do such 8-bit adapters have an onboard BIOS? It would be great if
I didn't have to boot off of a floppy disk just to access the hard
drive... I have a CorelSCSI card at home, but when I plug it in it
doesn't do anything at POST, and I don't have a driver or software to
test the card anyway :-/
I've been grafting 8 bit ISA cards onto my PCjr using an adapter. Some
of the good SCSI cards that I have played with are:
- Anything in the Future Domain 8xx series. Some have boot problems,
some do not. Avoid the ones that don't have standard pinouts. These
cards have good driver support for removable media and CD-ROM as well.
- Trantor T130B
- Trantor T128
- ST01: Works, but is kind of limited. ST02 should be similar.
Mike
6295
days inactive
6298
days old
22 comments
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alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
cclist＠sydex.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
nico＠farumdata.dk -
rescue＠hawkmountain.net -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
vax9000＠gmail.com