14 Mar
1999
14 Mar
'99
5:21 a.m.
At 11:59 PM 3/13/99 -0800, you wrote:
I saw an IBM 5150 today in a thrift store. The odd thing about it was
that it had no disk drives! It only had two black covers over the disk
drive bays. It seems like it came from the factory this way. It is the
first revision of motherboard with the cassette jack, so its conceivable
that it was used with a cassette recorder and was always like this. Does
anyone wish to concur on this? I'm debating if I should get it, but not
for the $20 they have it tagged for.
Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of the IBM PC had no drives, and 4k
of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the
cassette player was optional?!?). BASIC in the ROM so it could be
programmed...
Back in the days when a single floppy drive and controller was a (apx. $900
option)
Frighteningly enough... I remember selling quite a few of them in that
(cassette only) configuration.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
14 Mar
14 Mar
6:27 a.m.
The original IBM PC (5150) had 16K of memory (NOT 4k - THAT was the TRS-80
:-), expandable by populating sockets to 64K. Case, power supply,
motherboard with "Cassette BASIC" in ROM, and keyboard. It sold for about
$1320. Without video, without disk controller, without drives, without
serial, without parallel.
It wasn't usable without adding video. Although I did know one person who
hooked up a votrax, and never used her video other than to have a friend
load software in from cassette to "boot".
There was a built in cassette interface. IBM never sold the cable for
it, but the pinout matched the TRS-80, so the RS 26-???? cable worked.
Most people opted for "complete systems", which added $400 @ for Tandon
TM100-1 single sided full height drives, ~$300 for disk controller, ~$300
for video card, ~$600 for monitor, and a few hundred dollars for each row
of 16K memory.
In addition to portability, that meant that Compaq could claim to provide
enormous cost savings, by selling their machine for "LESS THAN $3000".
But among those rare few of the populace who understood how to use a
screwdriver, the cheapest route to a PC was the $1320 base machine, plus
disk controller, and CGA video card. Then go aftermarket (mostly TRS-80
suppliers) for drives at less than $200 @, cheap memory, and a composite
"closed circuit TV" monitor.
Within another year or two, aftermarket accessory boards became
available, and eventually clones and clone motherboards.
IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant
that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of
them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and
joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two
functions?
But the original $1320 5150 was devoid of drives and cards. ** FS
(after I back off all of the mods and put the original pieces back in) **
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366
Berkeley, CA 94710-2219
6:35 a.m.
At 09:27 AM 3/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
The original IBM PC (5150) had 16K of memory (NOT 4k -
THAT was the TRS-80
:-), expandable by populating sockets to 64K. Case, power supply,
motherboard with "Cassette BASIC" in ROM, and keyboard. It sold for about
$1320. Without video, without disk controller, without drives, without
serial, without parallel.
Oops... crossing my machines (yet again...) B^}
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
11:15 a.m.
IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8)
expansion slots meant
that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of
them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and
joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two
functions?
Real time clock.
I don't recall whether the sixth function was a floppy controller or
a second serial port.
9:42 a.m.
On 14 Mar 99 at 22:15, Eric Smith wrote:
Wasn't it a light-pen ? Or is that covered under serial ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
IBM's
braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant
that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of
them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and
joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two
functions?
Real time clock.
I don't recall whether the sixth function was a floppy controller or
a second serial port.
15 Mar
15 Mar
6:25 a.m.
Light pen interface was built in on the video board. Both CGA and MDP
(Monochrome Display and Printer) boards had it. But IBM didn't sell a
light pen, largely because the long persistence phosphor of the IBM
monochrome monitor made it unusable.
Clock and calendar were not on the motherboard until the AT. MS-DOS
would ask for DATE and TIME unless you had an AUTOEXEC.BAT file. Unless
you told it otherwise, it assumed that the date was 1/1/80.
Multifunction cards with disk controller, or video came much later. (~85)
The remaining "functions" to fill out the claimed numbers were software
in the box. Usually a RAM disk program and a print spooler. Thus, a
typical "SIX function" muyltifunction board would consist of Clock/calendar,
memory, serial, parallel, and two programs.
7:28 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 917 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990315/0d4d477d/at…
12:16 p.m.
The light pen was generally asociated with the video card until EGA came along.
Most dropped the light pen connector. One of the "multifunctions" of the 6 was
real time clock. AST's SixPak has added memory, RTC, 2 serial ports (one is
socketed for optional UART and driver chips), parallel and joystick (I think
joytick, my brain hurts today).
Tony Duell wrote:
> >
IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant
> > that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY
of
> > them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and
> > joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two
> > functions?
[...]
Wasn't it a light-pen ? Or is that covered
under serial ?
I would be _very_ suprised if that was the case. The easiest way to
implement a light pen is to use the signal from the light pen sensor to
latch the current video refresh address on the video card. The 6845 chip
(used on the CGA nad MDA cards) has an input just for this. And on both
of those cards that input is wired to a little header plug, to connect to
a light pen.
Trying to build a lightpen on anything other than a video card would seem
to be insane...
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
-tony
14 Mar
14 Mar
11:57 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 450 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990314/71e24e6e/at…
6:41 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8)
expansion slots meant
that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of
them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and
joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two
functions?
Let's see, real-time clock and bus termination? No, wait, that's S-100 :)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
11:10 a.m.
James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote:
The original configuration of the IBM PC had no
drives, and 4k
^^
Actually, the minimum configuration was 16K, and could be expanded to 64K
on the motherboard. 4K DRAMs were not supported.
They also offered expansion cards for bus slots; IIRC IBM only offered the
expansion cards with a full complement of 64K.
Motherboards and expansion cards using the new and amazing 64K DRAMs came
later.
Eric
12:24 p.m.
I remember buying my 5150 with 16 K, no drives, and *both*
the CGA and MDA adapters. So how many people know the answer
to the trivia question: if you had *both* adapters (and, presumably,
two monitors), which one did you have to tell system to default to?
(Via a switch/jumper? on the motherboard) :)
I financed the PC with IBM, buying the rock bottom miminum system,
and the IBM Assembler. Picked it up, drove straight to a garage in
south San Jose, and bought a couple of floppies, a controller, RAM
chips for the motherboard (48KB, to take it to 64 KB), and a Sigma
Designs (?) RAM board (I think) to add more memory. I remember
that I had waited until DOS 1.1 came out, because I wasn't
comfortable with the patch some people were doing to make DOS 1.0
handle double sided drives. Good thing...when 1.1 came out, it
handled the drives in a manner incompatible with the patched
version, IIRC.
Sadly, the 5150 disappeared when we we burglarized some years
ago.
9:42 a.m.
On 14 Mar 99 at 15:24, ss(a)allegro.com wrote:
I remember buying my 5150 with 16 K, no drives, and
*both*
the CGA and MDA adapters. So how many people know the answer
to the trivia question: if you had *both* adapters (and, presumably,
two monitors), which one did you have to tell system to default to?
(Via a switch/jumper? on the motherboard) :)
I'd think the MDA. ISTR that the SIMCA had a software switch to prevent
damage to your monitor when using a Hercules card.
I financed the PC with IBM, buying the rock bottom
miminum system,
and the IBM Assembler. Picked it up, drove straight to a garage in
south San Jose, and bought a couple of floppies, a controller, RAM
chips for the motherboard (48KB, to take it to 64 KB), and a Sigma
Designs (?) RAM board (I think) to add more memory. I remember
that I had waited until DOS 1.1 came out, because I wasn't
comfortable with the patch some people were doing to make DOS 1.0
handle double sided drives. Good thing...when 1.1 came out, it
handled the drives in a manner incompatible with the patched
version, IIRC.
Sadly, the 5150 disappeared when we we burglarized some years
ago.
I've got 2 5150s (as well as the other 51xx's and monitors) in my
collection. One is heavily modified with an Intel 386 Onboard card
(TMK Allison also has one on her Leading Edge), memory to 640,
a 20 Meg Plus Hardcard and 2 360 fdds. I just acquired a couple of
old VGA cards that I'm hoping will work, one has dual 9 and 15
monitor sockets and an external switchblock.
Like Allison I'm also looking for the daughter card for the Onboard to
bring memory up to 2 meg. BTW Allison, there's a guy in the PS2 mafia
who has one. It might be possible to get pin-outs from him.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
2:05 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1169 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990315/cc238d0d/at…
15 Mar
15 Mar
7:39 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1132 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990315/3c4d72ca/at…
14 Mar
14 Mar
12:53 p.m.
James Willing wrote:
Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of the IBM PC had no drives, and 4k
of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the
Jim, are you sure that was 4K of memory? My understanding is that the IBM PC
came with a minimum of 16K. The earliest motherboard I have seen was marked
16K - 64K.
1:59 p.m.
At 03:53 PM 3/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
James Willing wrote:
Nope... you (and some others who have sent me notes) are correct. I must
have been thinking about Apple ][s...
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of the IBM PC had no drives, and 4k
of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the
Jim, are you sure that was 4K of memory? My understanding is that the IBM PC
came with a minimum of 16K. The earliest motherboard I have seen was marked
16K - 64K.
6:35 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of the IBM
PC had no drives, and 4k
of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the
cassette player was optional?!?). BASIC in the ROM so it could be
programmed...
Back in the days when a single floppy drive and controller was a (apx. $900
option)
Frighteningly enough... I remember selling quite a few of them in that
(cassette only) configuration.
Ok, cool. Since I can't bear to let something even remotely odd slip thru
my fingers, I went back and got it. I'm start to amass quite an
interesting array of items related to quite possibly one of the most
uninteresting vintage computers around, the IBM PC. Aside from this, I
have the 5151 expansion chassis, the IBM PC joystick, the Diangostic
cassette, and other things I can't recall at the moment.
I opened this one up just now. I don't know why I missed the network card
before, but it seems like this may have been simply a diskless workstation
in an educational setting. It has the 64-256KB motherboard, with it seems
the full 256KB of socketed RAM (the first 64K being soldered of course).
It would have been more interesting if it had the original 16-64KB
motherboard, but the covers over the drive bays definitely are authentic
IBM as they are backed by a metal plate with brads that hold them in
place. The only other card it has is the Hercules graphics adaptor.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
15 Mar
15 Mar
2:31 a.m.
I've seen some 5150's from RI State surplus that had one drive and a
network card.
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of
the IBM PC had no drives, and 4k
of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the
cassette player was optional?!?). BASIC in the ROM so it could be
programmed...
Back in the days when a single floppy drive and controller was a (apx. $900
option)
Frighteningly enough... I remember selling quite a few of them in that
(cassette only) configuration.
Ok, cool. Since I can't bear to let something even remotely odd slip thru
my fingers, I went back and got it. I'm start to amass quite an
interesting array of items related to quite possibly one of the most
uninteresting vintage computers around, the IBM PC. Aside from this, I
have the 5151 expansion chassis, the IBM PC joystick, the Diangostic
cassette, and other things I can't recall at the moment.
I opened this one up just now. I don't know why I missed the network card
before, but it seems like this may have been simply a diskless workstation
in an educational setting. It has the 64-256KB motherboard, with it seems
the full 256KB of socketed RAM (the first 64K being soldered of course).
It would have been more interesting if it had the original 16-64KB
motherboard, but the covers over the drive bays definitely are authentic
IBM as they are backed by a metal plate with brads that hold them in
place. The only other card it has is the Hercules graphics adaptor.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
9257
days inactive
9258
days old
19 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
rhblake＠bigfoot.com -
ss＠allegro.com