6 Aug
2001
6 Aug
'01
7:11 a.m.
Does anyone know what sort of machine is in the
car's
onboard controller? A few pictures I've found make them
look like PC104's. These machines are hitting zero value
quickly and may not last 10 years unless picked up now.
What car? They don't all use the same controllers, you know... 
6 Aug
6 Aug
8:25 a.m.
Does anyone
know what sort of machine is in the car's
onboard controller? A few pictures I've found make them
look like PC104's. These machines are hitting zero value
quickly and may not last 10 years unless picked up now.
What car? They don't all use the same controllers, you know... 
9:16 a.m.
New subject: Fuel injection (was RE: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors?)
Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
Had Bosch come up with EFI already by 1968?
Yeah, D-Jetronic. Basically a solid-state version of the
Vacuum-tube EFI demonstrated by some Bendix engineers in the '50s --
in fact the Bosch electromechanical injectors are based on
the Bendix patents they purchased, and I wouldn't be
surprised if that is also true for the incredibly clever MAP
sensor that made it all go (Bendix exec's didn't see
why anyone would want such a thing are were happy to be rid
of the technology). D-Jetronic first showed up in 1968 on
the VW type III.
Every VW (and Audi & MB, etc) of that vintage that
I've seen used
CIS, which was a purely mechanical system.
K-Jetronic/CIS first showed up in 1973 on the 911. The earlier
mechanical systems used by MB, BMW (on the Tii) and
Porsche on the 911RS/RST/RSR were Bosch or Kuglefischer
mechanical injection, which is _very_ different from CIS -- it's
a mechanical injection pump that provides sequential injection of
fuel based on throttle position, engine temperature and, in the Bosch
case barometric pressure. The engine map that in modern digital
systems is encoded in ROM is represented in the pumps by a 3D
cam. It's actually quite clever.
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
9:17 a.m.
On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
yes.
Want a fuel
injection "brain" from a 1968 VW Squareback?
Had Bosch come up with EFI
already by 1968? Every VW (and Audi & MB, etc) of that vintage that
I've seen used
CIS, which was a purely mechanical system.
Then you've never seen any VWs of
that vintage.
In 1968, ALL VW type 1 (beetle) and type 2 (bus) used a single carburetor.
The type 3 was Botch electronic fool injection (Lots of wires and senders,
and a "brain" in the left rear fender)
There was no type 4 yet.
through about 1964, the VW type 3 (squareback/ "fastback"/ and the
"rare" "notchback") had a single sidedraft Solex carb, with
single port heads.
Then they switched to to two Solex carbs ????? -2 and -3
'67 VW type 3 had the two carburetors (with dual port heads)
In 1968, the type 3 switched over to Botch electronic fool injection.
It was a 1600cc engine. It required a little tweaking to make the EFI
work with 2180 (the maximum size that that block could be readily expanded
to.)
I have seen a 1969 Audi Super 90 (wagon) that had an
aftermarket
Capacitative Discharge Ignition (CDI) System... by 1974, Audis
had those as stock, while CIS was still 1 year off...
My 1986 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro uses a Motorola 6802-based
controller... very simple to upgrade, too.... ;-)
[every time somebody doubts the existence of stuff, I double the price on
it due to its obvious rarity!]
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
19 Jan
19 Jan
6:55 a.m.
--- Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> wrote:
Want a fuel injection "brain" from a 1968 VW Squareback?
Had Bosch come up with EFI already by 1968?
I think so. I have a 1975 and 1976 Microbus w/EFI. I think air
sucking VWs that had fuel injection, always had electronic fuel
injection. Among other things, it's the same block for a 1968
Squareback as for the Beetle - there's no place to put a fuel-injection
pump, etc. The reason they went with EFI on the "pancake" engines
was to reduce the height of the motor - no carburetor and intake
manifold like on the older motors. My Bus engine is probably only
6" taller than the top of the block, if that.
I don't have a need for a 1968 Squareback EFI brain, but I could probably
use parts for the 1.8L and 2.0L engines... the 1975 was purchased in a
previously-messed-with state and does not run reliable (the teenager who
owned it before me, tweaked everything he could find to fix the fast idle
problem. I looked at the car, started it, listened for a moment, then
yanked up on the gas pedal - the hinge was rusty. The problem now is
that the engine is out of whack and I can't seem to get it _into_ whack,
and I've owned veedubs since 1983. I'm about to take it to a shop,
something I rarely do with this type of car (put a water pump on a car,
though, and all the other festooning you get in a Detroit or Japanese
product, and I'll take that car into the shop for everything more
complicated the spark plugs and oil).
-ethan
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Does anyone
know what sort of machine is in the car's
onboard controller? A few pictures I've found make them
look like PC104's. These machines are hitting zero value
quickly and may not last 10 years unless picked up now.
What car? They don't all use the same controllers, you know... 
4:12 a.m.
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:55:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors?
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Want a fuel injection "brain" from a 1968 VW
Squareback?
Had Bosch come up with EFI already by 1968?
4:26 p.m.
--- jpero(a)sympatico.ca wrote:
FI is not too bad if you have good documentations and
they're very
reliable according to sources. What bedevils them is vaccuum leaks
and electronic connections.
Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained. Among the
wiring repairs, I had to resolder the leads into the cold-start
injector socket, because when I pulled the boot back to inspect
the wiring, the wires came out with virtually no force - the boot
was cut and taped... it looked as if someone else pulled them out,
then stuffed the bare wire ends into the backs of the crimp pins
and held it together with electrical tape. I wish that was the only
thing I'd found like that, but it wasn't (wire-nuts and 14 ga wire,
300% too long, wadded and stuffed down behind the air handler, yadda,
yadda, yadda). At least it was only $300 and it was in good enough
shape to drive 40 miles home. It's not reliable enough for regular
transport, but it should be repairable.
In any case, since I own two mid-1970s EFI microbuses, I'd love to have
a spare EFI brain of the vintage. They are essentially analog computers
with about 300 discrete components, but documentation is scant. They
could be repaired in a pinch, but I don't think anyone has reverse-
engineered one, so debugging would suck.
-ethan
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1:33 p.m.
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:26:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors?
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained.
Among the
wiring repairs, I had to resolder the leads into the cold-start
injector socket, because when I pulled the boot back to inspect
the wiring, the wires came out with virtually no force - the boot
was cut and taped... it looked as if someone else pulled them out,
then stuffed the bare wire ends into the backs of the crimp pins
and held it together with electrical tape. I wish that was the only
thing I'd found like that, but it wasn't (wire-nuts and 14 ga wire,
300% too long, wadded and stuffed down behind the air handler, yadda,
yadda, yadda).
Amazing! Do you know you may have some luck at junkyards? And
there's newsgroup you might know of related to old bugs and buses?
rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
There you go. Been a lurker there for years, people there is
wonderful and knows where to get oddball stuff. No, I don't own any
kind of vehicles YET.
In any case, since I own two mid-1970s EFI microbuses,
I'd love to have
a spare EFI brain of the vintage. They are essentially analog computers
with about 300 discrete components, but documentation is scant. They
could be repaired in a pinch, but I don't think anyone has reverse-
engineered one, so debugging would suck.
If that 300 parts, this sounds like fairly big ECU box? Most of
current and 10 year old ECUs are about 1 foot square by 3" thick or
smaller than that.
My friend had '72 bus came w/ EFI originally on pancake 2.0L but he
tore out EFI and used twin carbs and 009. Worked out ok but when we
met and one or two years later, I commented to him if that he kept
the EFI in there and diagnosed things correctly, he would have a
wonderful bus w/ smooth running engine years to come. Soon after,
instead he traded it away for '68 Mercedes 300D. Nice car but HEAVY
and what a boat. Diesel in straight 5 engine, loads of torque. Bit
of a lope at idle, due to one of injector firing wrong amount of
fuel. :-)
I'm indifferent to his whirlwind of stuff he does or does not too
well but for me, I vowed to do things correctly on vehicles, that
does matter if one chose a vehicle that is not so troublesome and so
$$$ on upkeep. I know because I help him out on his jettas for last
3 years so far.
VWs of late 80's and later era is expensive on parts and bit fussy on
upkeep plus they don't wear well if not on good upkeep. The worst
thing on friend's pair of Jettas, both needs rear calipers bec all
set of 4 has seized parking brakes. Cost is about 150 EACH, oh yeah
don't ask about cost of discs...both needed good set of them.
That's why I chose to stick to Chyrsler and it's siblings (Eagle,
etc), must be manual stick or 3 speed auto, mid-size or smaller,
4cyl (not 2.6L), for my first vehicle. Yes, I'm on both mailing list
for minivans and EEK, researches on chyrslers.
Someday, I'll take a old VW as hobby car. :-)
-ethan
Cheers,
Wizard
5:43 p.m.
New subject: OT: VW bus (was: RE: Collections vs. accumulations ....)
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained.
<snip>
At least it was only $300 and it was in good enough
shape to drive 40
miles home. It's not reliable enough for regular transport, but it
should be repairable.
About 2 years ago I purchased a 1969 Bus for $200. Someone had turned the
thing into an art car, and had abandoned it when its engine threw a rod.
I'm slowly restoring it back to original condition, and plan to build up
an engine for it. The engine that was in it was a real frankenstein. It
contained parts from at least 4 or 5 different models of VW engines. The
only reason I bought the thing with a DOA engine was the condition of the
body. Other than the typical rust found around the windshield and rusted
out front floor panels, the body is in great shape.
-Toth
6:09 p.m.
May I offer a note of indignation here without being insulting . .
Exactly what does a discussion thread about a VW engine have to do with
classic computers?
I enjoy the occasional bits on the Amiga and other 8 bit machines I've
dabbled with over theyears, and suffer quietly as you talk DECese and
VAXen, but some threads are really getting off in the next county, or
more.
My 2 kopecks worth . . .
Gary Hildebrand
8372
days inactive
8539
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net