22 May
2006
22 May
'06
1:47 p.m.
----------------Original Message:
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 00:28:55 +0200
From: "arne graff" <dsl289031 at vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: atari printers
Looking for a small plotter I was directed to one of your sites.
Do you know anywhere I could get hold of a Tandy CGP-115 new or used?
Regards
Arne Graff
------------------Reply:
I've got one: very slightly used, boxed with PS, manual & dust cover. Also
extra rolls of paper and 3 or 4 sets of pens, although, except for 2 black ones,
they're dried out by now. Contact off-list if interested.
BTW: Anybody have any experience reviving/replacing this type of pen?
(Just stubby little ball-points, also used in several other plotters of the day).
mike
22 May
22 May
7:41 p.m.
On 5/23/06, M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
BTW: Anybody have any experience reviving/replacing
this type of pen?
ISTR putting dead pens in a pan of hot water for a few minutes may have helped,
but it's not really a permanent solution - they gum up again rather soon.
And just since someone brought it up, did anyone ever come up with a
solution to the common problem with these plotters - broken gears? I
don't have the specifics on hand (we did debate the gear
characteristics endlessly) but the small gears that slide directly on
the motor shafts tend to crack, allowing them to slip on the shaft,
causing registration errors.
My memory of this topic is that these aren't a terribly common gear,
and finding an off-the-shelf replacement is somewhat problematic.
I have several mechanisms, some as printers (Atari, Commodore), some
as bare frames (surplus from Electronic Goldmine a few years back) - I
don't think I have 4 good gears in the entire pile. Anyone here ever
come up with a solution?
-ethan
8:17 p.m.
On 5/23/2006 at 2:41 PM Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have several mechanisms, some as printers (Atari,
Commodore), some
as bare frames (surplus from Electronic Goldmine a few years back) - I
don't think I have 4 good gears in the entire pile. Anyone here ever
come up with a solution?
Would any of the stuff that Small Parts sells be of any use?
http://www.smallparts.com/components/
Cheers,
Chuck
10:39 p.m.
On 5/23/06, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 5/23/2006 at 2:41 PM Ethan Dicks wrote:
This is the only one with the right number of teeth (14), but I can't
verify the other measurements because my plotters are 10,000 miles
away...
( http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/gd.cfm )
GDS-3214
14 teeth / 0.438" pitch dia. / 5/32" bore / 5/16" hub dia.
$2.00 ea / $18.13 for 10 / $41.20 for 25.
If this part matches the specs for the plotter gear, that'd be great.
I was unsuccessful in googling any old articles about this topic. I
remember it being discussed in mid-2003 (based on where I was working
at the time), perhaps May, if that helps. If anyone has any of the
former discussion and can cough up the shaft diameter and the pitch
diameter of the gear, that'd be what we need to see if this is the
right gear.
-ethan
I have several mechanisms, some as printers
(Atari, Commodore), some
as bare frames (surplus from Electronic Goldmine a few years back) - I
don't think I have 4 good gears in the entire pile. Anyone here ever
come up with a solution?
Would any of the stuff that Small Parts sells be of any use?
http://www.smallparts.com/components/
23 May
23 May
12:58 a.m.
On 5/23/2006 at 5:39 PM Ethan Dicks wrote:
If this part matches the specs for the plotter gear,
that'd be great.
I was unsuccessful in googling any old articles about this topic. I
remember it being discussed in mid-2003 (based on where I was working
at the time), perhaps May, if that helps. If anyone has any of the
former discussion and can cough up the shaft diameter and the pitch
diameter of the gear, that'd be what we need to see if this is the
right gear.
If that doesn't work, try these folks:
http://www.sdp-si.com/eStore/CoverPg/Gears.htm
You can probably find more small-quantity vendors by googling on
"engineering findings".
Cheers,
Chuck
29 May
29 May
6:51 p.m.
Ethan ( et al ),
On my 1020s the shaft diameter is 0.060 " on the gear in question. I hope
this helps. The gear listed below has a bore almost 2 times too big. I can
ship you small parts (i.e. things that will fit in an envelope). I have
several 1020s still in the original unopened boxes and some that have been
parted out. Biggest problem is still the ink ...
Best regards, Steven Canning
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: atari printers
On 5/23/06, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
wrote:
On 5/23/2006 at 2:41 PM Ethan Dicks wrote:
This is the only one with the right number of teeth (14), but I can't
verify the other measurements because my plotters are 10,000 miles
away...
( http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/gd.cfm )
GDS-3214
14 teeth / 0.438" pitch dia. / 5/32" bore / 5/16" hub dia.
$2.00 ea / $18.13 for 10 / $41.20 for 25.
If this part matches the specs for the plotter gear, that'd be great.
I was unsuccessful in googling any old articles about this topic. I
remember it being discussed in mid-2003 (based on where I was working
at the time), perhaps May, if that helps. If anyone has any of the
former discussion and can cough up the shaft diameter and the pitch
diameter of the gear, that'd be what we need to see if this is the
right gear.
-ethan
I have several mechanisms, some as printers
(Atari, Commodore), some
as bare frames (surplus from Electronic Goldmine a few years back) - I
don't think I have 4 good gears in the entire pile. Anyone here ever
come up with a solution?
Would any of the stuff that Small Parts sells be of any use?
http://www.smallparts.com/components/ 
30 May
30 May
6:15 a.m.
In message <000e01c6838b$8df5d930$6401a8c0 at hal9000>
"Steven Canning" <cannings at earthlink.net> wrote:
On my 1020s the shaft diameter is 0.060 " on the
gear in question. I hope
this helps. The gear listed below has a bore almost 2 times too big. I can
ship you small parts (i.e. things that will fit in an envelope). I have
several 1020s still in the original unopened boxes and some that have been
parted out. Biggest problem is still the ink ...
I think I've got a Sharp pen plotter that's the same - little tiny pens and a
paper roll (although IIRC you can feed it cut sheets as well). I've yet to
find anywhere that sells the pens, but apparently Radioshack used to stock
them.
Shame really, it's a nice little plotter - Sharp CE-515P if anyone wants to
look it up. Takes the EA-850B, EA-850C or EA-852C pens. Actually, I think
I've got a PDF of the manual somewhere...
--
Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G VF+UniPod
philpem at dsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 1G+180G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G
3:03 p.m.
I think I've got a Sharp pen plotter that's
the same - little tiny pens and a
paper roll (although IIRC you can feed it cut sheets as well). I've yet to
find anywhere that sells the pens, but apparently Radioshack used to stock
them.
IIRC, the mecahnsim was made by Alps, and there are at least 2 sizes.
There was a small one, about 2" wide used in the Sharp printer for the
PC1500 calculator (sold in a slightly modified form as the PC2 by
Radioshack). And a larger one, used in the Atari printer that started
this thread, the Commodore 1520, Radio Shack CGP115, Oric printer [1],
etc, etc, etc. Both units use the same pens.
There was also a standard controller IC (it was a mask-programmed
microcontroller, I forget which one, but it was something standard --
maybe 6805-like), which was used in some of the desktop printers. It had
Centronics and 600 baud serial inputs.
I have the Alps service documentation for this mechanism, but it doesn't
show the motor pinion separately from the motor.
I also haev an electronic 'typewriter' which uses a similar mechanism,
but A4 width. It has a Centronics input, and responds to the same
commands as the smaller units.
Nor do I know of a source of pens. Radio Shack used to sell them years
ago, not surpisingly. IIRC, there were 2 packs, a set of 3 black pens,
and a set of 1 each of red, blue, green. The 'typewriter' I mentioned
also can take a pen filled with Tipp-ex like correction fluid to use to
delect characters (I am not joking!).
[1] The Oric printer came in 2 colour schemes, white to match the
original Oric 1, and orange to match the Atmos. Internally they are
identical. Talking of Oric add-ons, does anyone know anything about the
3" disk drives for the Oric. I have a pair which have been messed about
with by the previosu owner (I think he had 2 'master' units, with the
internal controller board and was trying to turn on into a slave). One
day I will sort them out.
-tony
8:54 p.m.
On 5/31/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
There was also a standard controller IC (it was a
mask-programmed
microcontroller, I forget which one, but it was something standard --
maybe 6805-like), which was used in some of the desktop printers. It had
Centronics and 600 baud serial inputs.
The controller in the C= 1520 is a 6500-family masked-programmed
controller and only implemented the C= IEC bus, not serial or
Centronics.
I have the Alps service documentation for this
mechanism, but it doesn't
show the motor pinion separately from the motor.
That's a shame.
I've contemplated what it would take to make a "negative gear" in some
durable material like aluminum and experiment with extrusion molding
of a "slug" which would then be cut down to the right length. Since I
have a few bare Alps mechanisms, I've also contemplated experimentally
turning down the motor shafts if I were to ever find a matching gear
that was the right size except for shaft diameter. Anyone else here
have any ideas on how to solve the perpetual cracked gear dilemma?
-ethan
31 May
31 May
3:55 p.m.
On 5/31/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Yes, that's one of the odd ones (I have the schematic for the 1520
somewhere). Another odd one is the printer for the PC1500 handheld, it's
just an I/O chip that sits on the PC1500 processor bus, and some drivers.
Firmware running on the PC1500's processor drives the plotter.
There was also a standard controller IC (it was a
mask-programmed
microcontroller, I forget which one, but it was something standard --
maybe 6805-like), which was used in some of the desktop printers. It had
Centronics and 600 baud serial inputs.
The controller in the C= 1520 is a 6500-family masked-programmed
controller and only implemented the C= IEC bus, not serial or
Centronics. I've contemplated what it would take to make a
"negative gear" in some
durable material like aluminum and experiment with extrusion molding
Yes, I've wondered about that too. Maybe EDM would be the way to make it
(but I've not tried).
of a "slug" which would then be cut down to
the right length. Since I
have a few bare Alps mechanisms, I've also contemplated experimentally
turning down the motor shafts if I were to ever find a matching gear
that was the right size except for shaft diameter. Anyone else here
have any ideas on how to solve the perpetual cracked gear dilemma?
I am wondering aobut making lantern pinions the right size. Yes, the
tooth profile on the meshing gear in the plotter would be wrong, but
would it matter? And a lantern pinion is a lot easier to make than the
original type.
-tony
9:40 p.m.
On 6/1/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Me, too; and I think they are on the funet archive (wherever it ended up
recently). It's not surprising it's odd, what with C= owning the MOS
Technologies fab; they tended to go for chip-level solutions as opposed
to the things that Apple did in those days (standard parts, essentially).
The controller
in the C= 1520 is a 6500-family masked-programmed
controller and only implemented the C= IEC bus...
Yes, that's one of the odd ones (I have the schematic for the 1520
somewhere). I am wondering aobut making lantern pinions the right
size. Yes, the
tooth profile on the meshing gear in the plotter would be wrong, but
would it matter? And a lantern pinion is a lot easier to make than the
original type.
I am unfamiliar with a lantern pinion... what is that?
-ethan
1 Jun
1 Jun
5:12 p.m.
I am wondering
aobut making lantern pinions the right size. Yes, the
tooth profile on the meshing gear in the plotter would be wrong, but
would it matter? And a lantern pinion is a lot easier to make than the
original type.
I am unfamiliar with a lantern pinion... what is that? from solid metal, you have 2 disks fixed to the spindle
with holes round
them, nad pins (called 'trundles') going through said
holes acting as the
teeth. The result looks like a little cage around the shaft.
The advantage, when it comes to making them, is that you only need a
dividing head (to put the holes round the circle at an even spacing), you
don't need the right milling cutter to cut the spaces between the teeth
as you do for a normal-type of pinion.
The disadvantage here is that the teeth on the meshing gear should really
have a different profile. I don't think that would matter in one of these
plotters, though.
-tony
2 Jun
2 Jun
2 a.m.
At 02:15 PM 5/30/06 +0100, you wrote:
In message <000e01c6838b$8df5d930$6401a8c0 at
hal9000>
"Steven Canning" <cannings at earthlink.net> wrote:
FWIW I have a couple of Gould Digital Storage Scopes that have similar
printers built into them. The printers appear to work but the pins dried up
years ago. If anyone comes up with a replacement or fix for them I'd like
to hear about it.
FWIW2 Based on my experience years ago with the CGP-115 the pins don't
last long so replacement isn't a good solution unless you can buy them by
the dozen!
Joe
On my 1020s the shaft diameter is 0.060 " on
the gear in question. I hope
this helps. The gear listed below has a bore almost 2 times too big. I can
ship you small parts (i.e. things that will fit in an envelope). I have
several 1020s still in the original unopened boxes and some that have been
parted out. Biggest problem is still the ink ...
I think I've got a Sharp pen plotter that's the same - little tiny pens and a
paper roll (although IIRC you can feed it cut sheets as well). I've yet to
find anywhere that sells the pens, but apparently Radioshack used to stock
them.
Shame really, it's a nice little plotter - Sharp CE-515P if anyone wants to
look it up. Takes the EA-850B, EA-850C or EA-852C pens. Actually, I think
I've got a PDF of the manual somewhere...
8:57 a.m.
New subject: Pens for Atari, CBM and TRS plotters (was: atari printers)
In message <3.0.6.16.20060602090016.34cfbfe0 at pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
FWIW I have a couple of Gould Digital Storage
Scopes that have similar
printers built into them. The printers appear to work but the pins dried up
years ago. If anyone comes up with a replacement or fix for them I'd like
to hear about it.
What about drilling out the innards of the pen, then installing the cut-down
guts of a fibre-tip ("fineliner") pen in its place?
You'd probably need a drill press and some form of mounting jig to get the
hole centred, and I've no doubt it would make a big mess, but it should be
doable. The only problem would be that the pen would likely dry out over
time, but I've seen fineliners that claim not to dry out if the cap is left
off...
--
Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G VF+UniPod
philpem at dsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 1G+180G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G
10:15 a.m.
New subject: Pens for Atari, CBM and TRS plotters (was: atari printers)
On 6/2/2006 at 4:57 PM Philip Pemberton wrote:
What about drilling out the innards of the pen, then
installing the
cut-down guts of a fibre-tip ("fineliner") pen in its place?
You'd probably need a drill press and some form of mounting jig to get the
hole centred, and I've no doubt it would make a big mess, but it should be
doable. The only problem would be that the pen would likely dry out over
time, but I've seen fineliners that claim not to dry out if the cap is
left
off...
One solution might be to obtain the ink and pen from a strip recorder and
fit it to the plotter. These don't dry out as quickly and can be easily
unclogged with a small cleaning wire.
I recall trying felt tips on a Moore strip recorder and having a miserable
time with the ink drying out.
Cheers,
Chuck
5:17 p.m.
New subject: Pens for Atari, CBM and TRS plotters (was: atari
One solution might be to obtain the ink and pen from a
strip recorder and
fit it to the plotter. These don't dry out as quickly and can be easily
unclogged with a small cleaning wire.
These plotters have a plastic cylinder on the carriage with 4 pens fitted
round it (it's a bit like the chambers of a revolver gun). When the
carriage moves to the extreme left, a spring bit of metal on the frame
hits a ratchet tooth on the cyclinder. By moving the carriage to/from the
left side 3 times (I think), the cylinder is turned by quarter of a turn,
thus sleecting the next pen.
Theres a magent embedded in the cylinder and a reed switch on the
chassis, used to detect the home position of the cylinder (black pen in
use, if you've fitted the pens conventionally).
The points of the pens fit into a spring metal circle with 4 holes that
keeps them off the paper. Across the printer, just behind the carriage,
is a rail operated by a solenoid at one side of the chassis. When
operated, it pushes the selected pen forwards, into contact with the paper.
Because of this consruction, it's almost impossible to kludge in some
non-stnadard pen.
-tony
5:02 p.m.
New subject: Pens for Atari, CBM and TRS plotters (was: atari printers)
What about drilling out the innards of the pen, then installing the cut-down
guts of a fibre-tip ("fineliner") pen in its place?
You'd probably need a drill press and some form of mounting jig to get the
The easy way to do that is to clamp the pen body in a lathe chuck and put
a twist drill in the tailstock chuck. I would think most self-centring
lathe chucks would be accurate enough for this -- easily.
The only problem is that most, if not all, lathe owners are not going to
want ink all over their machine tools...
-tony
6777
days inactive
6789
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16 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cannings＠earthlink.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dm561＠torfree.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com