5 May
2018
5 May
'18
5:57 a.m.
Can anyone tell what kind of computer this might have been connected to?
https://i.imgur.com/IC3AVCf.jpg
I googled MS8192X26-1.9-RT and found one hit:
http://www.nsn-now.com/Indexing/ViewDetail.aspx?QString=7025013480747
And then FABRI-TECH (maybe miss-spelled) gave a nice broschure:
https://archive.org/details/TNM_Fabri-Tek_Inc_-_Brochure_20170629_0325
The core memory system boxes indeed look similar.
But still no clue what kind of system this has been connected to.
What kind of system made use of 26 bits? Maybe 24 bits + check bits?
It could be flight control related since it is aviation museum that
currently have it. But the person I have contact with don't know the actual
source. Possibly flight simulation since the same guys do have several old
flight simulators.
5 May
5 May
11:20 a.m.
On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
Can anyone tell what kind of computer this might have
been connected to?
https://i.imgur.com/IC3AVCf.jpg
The panel just SCREAMS military. A lot of outfits
(CDC,Burroughs, IBM, Honeywell) made systems for the
military. Likely, the back of that unit tells who made it.
It could be flight control related since it is aviation museum that
currently have it. But the person I have contact with don't know the actual
source. Possibly flight simulation since the same guys do have several old
flight simulators.
Simulation -- could be. Some Honeywell gear was 24-bit.
Jon
11:57 a.m.
2018-05-05 17:20 GMT+02:00 Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com>:
On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
I don't think it would be necessary to look at the back. The picture
matches very well with the ones in the Fabri-Tek brochure that I linked.
And then ID MS8192x26-1.9-RT make a hit in the "NSN database" to a
FABRI-TECH unit. Core memory system.
The FABRI-TEK brochure is printed sometime after 1965. And the System units
have a slightly more modern look compared to the one I linked to. I am
mostly referring to the panel meter which seems to have gone from round to
rectangular.
It can indeed have been used for some military application. Especially
since this museum have received some military aircraft items in the past.
Can anyone tell what kind of computer this might
have been connected to?
https://i.imgur.com/IC3AVCf.jpg
The panel just SCREAMS military. A lot of outfits (CDC,Burroughs, IBM,
Honeywell)
made systems for the military. Likely, the back of that unit
tells who made it.
> It could be flight control related since it is aviation museum that
> currently have it. But the person I have contact with don't know the
> actual
> source. Possibly flight simulation since the same guys do have several old
> flight simulators.
>
> Simulation -- could be. Some Honeywell gear was 24-bit.
I found one more google hit for FABRI-TEK:
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/60s/moby.htm Interfacing it with a PDP-6.
Jon
12:10 p.m.
On 5/5/18 8:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
I found one more google hit for FABRI-TEK:
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/60s/moby.htm Interfacing it with a PDP-6.
There should be a bunch of info on the net, Fabri-Tek made a LOT of OEM
core memory units. I have one for a PDP-8/I
Also, that link is a picture of the unit that CHM has
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102731715
26-bits is an interesting number of bits.
1:02 p.m.
Just found a better picture of the MIT PDP-6 core panel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mwichary/2323461568
The contents of the fortune cookie was still taped on there as of 2008
On 5/5/18 8:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> I found one more google hit for FABRI-TEK:
> http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/60s/moby.htm Interfacing it with a PDP-6.
12:33 p.m.
On 2018-May-05, at 2:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
Can anyone tell what kind of computer this might have
been connected to?
https://i.imgur.com/IC3AVCf.jpg
I googled MS8192X26-1.9-RT and found one hit:
http://www.nsn-now.com/Indexing/ViewDetail.aspx?QString=7025013480747
And then FABRI-TECH (maybe miss-spelled) gave a nice broschure:
https://archive.org/details/TNM_Fabri-Tek_Inc_-_Brochure_20170629_0325
The core memory system boxes indeed look similar.
But still no clue what kind of system this has been connected to.
What kind of system made use of 26 bits? Maybe 24 bits + check bits?
It could be flight control related since it is aviation museum that
currently have it. But the person I have contact with don't know the actual
source. Possibly flight simulation since the same guys do have several old
flight simulators.
Can't help with the target system, but I'd guess the "1.9" is likely the
cycle time in uS.
26 bits might be 24 with parity and a spare.
12:50 p.m.
On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
It could be flight control related since it is
aviation museum that
currently have it.
Hmm, 'stack heater' caught my eye... I'm not particularly familiar with
core setups, but I didn't think that was a common thing, suggesting the
possibility of a cold environment - immediate thought on the back of that
was something on a plane.
1:23 p.m.
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
My 360/50 panel has the ability to monitor and adjust in real time the core
current.
Military or extreme environment core was a bitch to keep working. I worked
on a system designed to go in a Army tank and
I came in late but remember we had to test the system from -55 F to 155 F,
and the core was the biggest trouble maker.
-pete
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
It could be flight control related since it is
aviation museum that
currently have it.
Hmm, 'stack heater' caught my eye... I'm not particularly familiar with
core setups, but I didn't think that was a common thing, suggesting the
possibility of a cold environment - immediate thought on the back of that
was something on a plane.
1:35 p.m.
On 5/5/2018 10:23 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial
environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
My 360/50 panel has the ability to monitor and adjust in real time the core
current.
Military or extreme environment core was a bitch to keep working. I worked
on a system designed to go in a Army tank and
I came in late but remember we had to test the system from -55 F to 155 F,
and the core was the biggest trouble maker.
-pete
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
>
>> It could be flight control related since it is aviation museum that
>> currently have it.
>>
> Hmm, 'stack heater' caught my eye... I'm not particularly familiar with
> core setups, but I didn't think that was a common thing, suggesting the
> possibility of a cold environment - immediate thought on the back of that
> was something on a plane.
>
>
>
>
Core memory in an Army tank????? There has to be a fascinating tale
behind that statement.....
Steve
1:49 p.m.
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial
environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
Every DEC corestack I've seen at least has a thermistor to handle the
normal range of operational temps.
My 360/50 panel has the ability to monitor and adjust
in real time the core
current.
I have not worked on a machine that allowed one to watch or (easily)
adjust the core current, but I only have "low end" systems.
-ethan
2:32 p.m.
On 05/05/2018 10:23 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial
environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
The early IBM 7000 series (7070, 7080, 7090) kept core in a
temperature-regulated oil bath. Later versions used pre-heated air
(e.g. 7094 core).
On the CDC 7600, hitting the same area of care repeatedly could cause it
to overheat and throw parity errors. Circuitry to detect this would
slow-down repeated accesses.
That was for CM. I seem to recall someone telling me that there was no
such provision in PP core and a "jump to self" was sufficient to throw
an error--but that may be a shaggy-dog story.
--Chuck
6 May
6 May
2:19 p.m.
On May 5, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 05/05/2018 10:23 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
The IBM 1620 had a core heater; I remember having to wait for core to warm up after
turning the machine on before it would start.
One of the old PDP-11 diagnostics is the "core heating test". The description
said it would hammer a region of memory (physical area) to get it to warm up, to see if
there was enough margin for memory to remain reliable.
On CDC memory: The 6000 series PPs always access memory every cycle. Whenever it
doesn'thave anything better to do, the control logic uses the P register (program
counter) for address. So there is no way in a PP to make memory work any harder; it's
always a cycle every microsecond (memory running flat out) no matter what. I'm not
positive the 7000 series works the same, but it would seem plausible that it does.
CM, on the other hand, is referenced only when requested. So CM is normally working less
than PP memory.
Parity? I know the 170 series had parity, didn't think the 7600 did. The 6000 series
does not (except for ECS). "Parity is for farmers" -- Seymour Cray.
paul
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial
environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
The early IBM 7000 series (7070, 7080, 7090) kept core in a
temperature-regulated oil bath. Later versions used pre-heated air
(e.g. 7094 core).
On the CDC 7600, hitting the same area of care repeatedly could cause it
to overheat and throw parity errors. Circuitry to detect this would
slow-down repeated accesses.
That was for CM. I seem to recall someone telling me that there was no
such provision in PP core and a "jump to self" was sufficient to throw
an error--but that may be a shaggy-dog story. 
8 May
8 May
1:05 p.m.
On 5/6/2018 1:19 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
You can add the IBM 1410 to that list of machines with core heaters as
well - I checked the drawings. 100 watt heater, nominal 100 degrees F
with 86F under temp and 120F over temp. I think the machine I worked
with back in the day even had a thermometer placed vertically in the stack.
I also worked one evening with some friends trying to fix a 7090 with
oil core (which I know was heated), and we set up an IBM 7094-II
(originally from White Sands Missle Range - WSMR) with air core (which I
believe was heated) in the basement of the U. Wisconsin computer science
building in 1974. We also had an IBM 1410 down there (donated from
Oscar Mayer) whose core developed failures after some time in storage -
it was pretty cold, so we guessed that it was from the wires contracting
- not long enough for the enamel insulation to have degraded.
I would expect the 1401 would also be on the list.
JRJ
On May 5, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Chuck Guzis via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 05/05/2018 10:23 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
The IBM 1620 had a core heater; I remember having to wait for core to warm up after
turning the machine on before it would start.
One of the old PDP-11 diagnostics is the "core heating test". The description
said it would hammer a region of memory (physical area) to get it to warm up, to see if
there was enough margin for memory to remain reliable.
On CDC memory: The 6000 series PPs always access memory every cycle. Whenever it
doesn'thave anything better to do, the control logic uses the P register (program
counter) for address. So there is no way in a PP to make memory work any harder; it's
always a cycle every microsecond (memory running flat out) no matter what. I'm not
positive the 7000 series works the same, but it would seem plausible that it does.
CM, on the other hand, is referenced only when requested. So CM is normally working less
than PP memory.
Parity? I know the 170 series had parity, didn't think the 7600 did. The 6000
series does not (except for ECS). "Parity is for farmers" -- Seymour Cray.
paul
Core temp was a big issue even in commercial
environments. You didn't see
it temp but you would see core [driver] current.
The early IBM 7000 series (7070, 7080, 7090) kept core in a
temperature-regulated oil bath. Later versions used pre-heated air
(e.g. 7094 core).
On the CDC 7600, hitting the same area of care repeatedly could cause it
to overheat and throw parity errors. Circuitry to detect this would
slow-down repeated accesses.
That was for CM. I seem to recall someone telling me that there was no
such provision in PP core and a "jump to self" was sufficient to throw
an error--but that may be a shaggy-dog story.
5 May
5 May
8:37 p.m.
On 05/05/2018 11:50 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
On 05/05/2018 04:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
Lots of early core memory systems had heated core stacks.
It was a lot simpler to heat the stack to a known
temperature than to cool it. Eventually, they figured out
that you could put a thermistor in the stack and adjust the
half-select currents to follow the temperature characteristic.
But, I think IBM 1620, 709x and 360/30, 360/40, etc had
heated stacks. I think the 360/50 had a heated local store,
but not the main store.
The picture looked just a little big/heavy for flight gear,
but maybe something like the E3 might have gear like that in
the radar data processor.
Jon
It could be flight control related since it is
aviation
museum that
currently have it.
Hmm, 'stack heater' caught my eye... I'm not particularly
familiar with core setups, but I didn't think that was a
common thing, suggesting the possibility of a cold
environment - immediate thought on the back of that was
something on a plane.
2308
days inactive
2311
days old
13 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bhilpert＠shaw.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cube1＠charter.net -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
shumaker＠att.net