7 Sep
2007
7 Sep
'07
2:13 a.m.
On 06/09/07, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
I lose track of IBM's regular renaming of its enterprise lines. I
thought the pSeries was basically RS/6000, versus zSeries being S/390
and iSeries = AS/400? (You might think "i" = "Intel" or "i"
= "i386",
but noooooo...) I think eSeries was the x86 stuff, wasn't it?
But anyway, AIUI, pSeries - which is what I'm guessing you mean by p5
- was AIX boxes maybe running Linux maybe in a VM, whereas zSeries was
S/390s, VM boxes running Linux maybe in an LPAR?
Liam Proven wrote:
I never said they were obsolete, nor anything like it. I described
them as "legacy systems" (or words to that effect) and said that they
had little direct relevance to me personally or to me professionally,
inasmuch as they're not relevant to any of my clients.
And I stand by that.
On 06/09/07, Patrick Finnegan <pat at
computer-refuge.org> wrote:
As it has been since roughly 1975. I'm really confused as to what
point you're trying to make. If the point is that Dell sells a metric
buttload more PC crap than IBM sells mainframes, I don't believe anyone
disagrees. If the point is that zSeries or s/390 systems are obsolete,
that point will never hold water. On Thursday 06 September 2007, Liam Proven
wrote:
> Well, we could compare installs, or we could compare users. It's up
> to you. Either way, I'll warrant that its market share now is
> infinitisemal compared to what it once what.
>
Even if you measured the mainframes' /cost/ as an absolute, it would
still be tiny compared to the hundreds of millions of PCs sold. A very good analogy would be a comparison of
passenger-car sales to
diesel/electric locomotive sales. Trains have been around a hell of a
lot longer than passenger cars, and they still do exactly what they've
always done. And, for every locomotive engine sold today, there are
likely millions of cars sold. Not only does that not prove that trains
are obsolete, but the comparison is absolutely meaningless.
Train sales versus car sales? Meaningless.
Number of people travelling by train versus number travelling by car?
Highly meaningful and relevant, especially vis-a-vis Greenhouse
Effect/Global Warming discussions.
>>
Indeed, tho' I don't know a lot about mainframes, I have a feeling
>> that most Linux/390 is deployed on z/VM - which is to say, in an LPAR
>> under VM - rather than under z/OS, which is to say, MVS. Linux is
>> probably actually displacing MVS - z/OS - rather than helping it.
In fact, the instance of z/OS compared to z/VM is going *up*, not
down. Those "marginally interesting" p5 systems are scaling into the
low-end LPAR market, while a lot of high-end work, especially in
database ops, is scaling into the realm of single-image mainframes. I've been following both branches of this
thread (zOS market share,
and POWER vs 970FX), and I really have to ask:
Do you have any actual experience with, first-hand knowledge of, or
formal training in *any* of IBM's non-x86 server platforms?
I have worked on and supported early RT/PC systems (6150, 6151) under
AIX, System/36 and several AS/400s - some in the last 5y. I've also
worked on PDP/11, more VAXen than I can remember, Alphas, SunOS &
Solaris on SPARC and other things. So, not all x86, but most of the
non-x86 stuff has been Unix.
So, yes, I have some experience beyond x86, where I've covered
everything from Xenix to Netware to Concurrent CP/M and Concurrent
DOS, outside of the vanilla world of Micros~1 operating systems.
But, really, very little mainframe experience & not much with minis. I
am a desktop and PC server type, really. I am still trying to broaden
my experience.
Because everyone who has replied to you, including
myself, work with
them daily. I'm probably the least knowledgeable, as I have very little
experience with the mainframes and none at all with AS/400 or i5. My
point is that Pat, Sridhar, William, and even I might know what we're
talking about.
I don't doubt it; I did, when replying to Pat, but I had misunderstood
him and I didn't have my own facts straight either.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com
Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508