13 Oct
1999
13 Oct
'99
3:16 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts
I wrote:
My friend... That is what auctions are all about.. and it's not limited to
computers.
When I was 17 I was at the Interhauler Yauht backruptsy auction. They had an
IBM mainframe and a mini. As the mini was old I was hoping to pick it up for
$100 (I was a student). I placed a bid of $50. when all of a sudden the
owner from "Kitchens Construction" thinks the machine can be used and placed
a bid of $500! I did not have $500 on me.... he was arrogant about the win
of his auction... smiled at me and left the room. Little did he know the
next auction was for the DISKPACKS for *his* computer. I bought them for
$60. I went out to him RIGHT after he won the auction and asked him if he
won the bid on the computer. He smurked at me and said "Of Course". I told
him (and I can remember my exact words): "Good, I just bought all the
software for YOUR computer so I guess you WON'T be using it".
His face dropped! He looked down and walked over to the auctioneer to
complain. When he couldn't get his way he came over to me and asked me what
I was going to do with them. I told him I had a PDP 11 and was going to
FORMAT the platters and use them on my system. I knew who he was, I let him
stu all night and called him the next day. He bought the diskpacks without
the case for $750!
<rant>
That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like
us, for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term.
"George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com>
Whereas I agree that there is a differentiation
between the
"collector" and the "enthusiast", I must take umbrage to the ,again,
generalization of the person who pays "too much" on ebay
automatically being "collector assholes, just because he had deep
pockets".
I don't believe I said anything of the sort. I said that "collectors"
hang out on eBay, but I never said that enthusiasts don't.
Are you implying that one must be of modest means
to be an
"enthusiast".
No, I didn't. I've seen enthusiasts pay enormous amounts of money
for certain items. I've done it myself. What I object to is having
to do it because some non-enthusiast asshole has more dollars than
sense. More about this later. If you saw a rare whatnot that you had always
loved
and wanted to tinker with, and had the financial means to acquire
it, would you let it go to the scrap because you thought the asking
price was too high?
No. But I still might complain about the price.
Would you let it go to a "collector
asshole"
because you thought the asking price was too high?
Yes, if the "asking price" was "too high". "Too high" is a
subjective measure. I never buy ANYTHING that I think is priced
"too high". Of course, tommorow's value of "too high" may be
different from today's.
Now of course, there are people who would
purchase something
simply for the "coolness" of having it.
Those are the people that buy perfectly good, working core memory
planes, and destroy them to make wall hangings. Those are the
people for whom I believe there should be a special place reserved
in hell. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.
I fully understand the frustration, but venting
it by making
generalizations of those who happen to be better financially
equipped than you, or are just willing to pay more for something
than you, is just immature.
If complaining about life's injustices is immature, then I'm
immature. But then, so's most everyone else I know.
In fact, aren't you complaining about me based on some generalization
you've made regarding me? Sounds immature to me. :-)
Call the guy who purchased an Altair for $2K an
asshole/loser collector/not worthy,
Depends on why he purchased it. Maybe he is, maybe not. But I've
had personal experiences with people who I *KNOW* were just
"collectors" and had no interest in machines other than because
they are "collectable". I.e., they had no experience with the
particular machine, and no real interest in learning about it.
If you don't think those people are assholes, fine. I do.
Others suggested distinguishing between people who view collecting
as an "investment", vs. people who collect for completeness. I
don't see that as being nearly as useful a distinction, because
there are two kinds of people who collect for completeness. Using
the Atari 8-bit example:
1) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because
they actually like and care about Ataris. That still maps to
my "enthusiast" category.
2) People who want every last Atari model and peripheral because they
happen to think they are collectable, even though they have no real
personal interest in Atari stuff. And they don't really care
whether the machine is in working order, or about keeping it that
way if it is. They may or may not think it is an investment. Yes,
I've met people like that. And that's who I was referring to as a
"collector". Yes, I consider those people to be assholes. That's
my opinion, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else.
Obviously I should be more precise in my terminology: I divide people
buying old computers into "enthusiasts" (who might be collectors) and
"non-enthusiast collectors" (who may or may not be "investors"). The
fact that some collectors are also enthusiasts does not make me like the
"non-enthusiast collectors".
Eric