14 Apr
2001
14 Apr
'01
11:15 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
I've seen attempts by others to repair keypads of
the KIM-1 sort. It's
doomed
to frustration. They cost MUCH less than $1 US in the
quantity in which
they
were purchased in '76, and that was >50%
shipping and packaging. The
KIM-1 was
designed more as a novelty than as a computer, since
it was really just a
demo/evaluation kit for their ROM/I/O etc. devices. It was designed to
see <
1-2 hr of power-on time. Clearly they didn't need
a seriously serviceable
keypad for that.
I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour at a
time"
kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took apart one
broken
keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-(
As for up-time, this particular KIM-1 has seen many thousands of up-time
hours,
being the platform on which I learned to program computers (even before
BASIC), and that got me hooked.
So there are obvious fond memories of discovery there.
Even hand assembly and calculating relative branches by
hand didn't seem too awful at the time. Just being able to write a program
and make it do something was far too magical to seem tedious. :)
It also spent an awful lot of time playing Microchess, Wumpus,
Lunar Lander, Blackjack, etc. The First Book of KIM and the programmers
reference guide were tattered almost to oblivion. :) And the keyboard was
a hunk of junk, you're right. I seem to remember having trouble with the
"0"-"3" and "+" keys even in the late 70's.
I do agree that the board was principally aimed an engineers and the sort
of person who would play around just enough to decide if this was a family
of chips they can use and try out a few ideas, then go on to design their
own hardware, but there were some indications that MOS expected some
users to expand it significantly; otherwise, why supply expansion connectors
with all
relevant signals and provisions to flexibly alter the on-board decoding
externally,
and why TTY + paper tape capabilities on top of keyboard + cassette if it
was just
to bang a few bits and play long enough to make a mindshare sale? It seems
like
a lot of engineering effort could have been spared if it was intended to be
a fixed,
unexpandable board.
It looks to me more like MOS Technologies expected some of these boards to
end
up as process controllers or to be expanded, e.g. KIM-4, and not just for
evaluation
service. Then hobbyists discovered it and who knows what percentage of
total
KIMs sold ultimately went to hobbyists for home use?
-- Ross
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
> >
> > Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place
before
>
> Exactly. I can think of a few keyboards that I know to be made up of
> individual switches, but all of them are over 10 years old, and hence
> should be restored themselves, not stripped.
>
> > deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine
IBM.
If
> > the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to
use one
of
case
That was my original comment. The true IBM 'clicky' keyboards are not
suitable for this, for all they have a lovely feel (I am using one right
now).
> them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a
cheapie
as
> > one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1
is
The
Again, agreed, but you might come across them in some (high-end) classic
computers.
> clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the
relatively
>
> We're agreeing on everything. Yes, no point in making life difficult. Kim was
designed to use a switch, and that's what should be used to make
a new keypad -- especially as suitable switches are available.
Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad
apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or
replaced, for example.
-tony