Even with a
modern machine and a fast internet connection it simply
takes
too ling to 'flip through' a collection of data sheets.
That depends entirely on the design of the website.
I don't think it does. I've yet to use any computer (and I am not talking
aobut my classics here) where I can 'turn the pages' of a PDF file as
quickly as I an turn the pages of a book and still read enough
information to know if I waant to stop and read that page more carefully.
If I know I want a particular data sheet, then, yes, I can probalby (90%
of the time or so) get it on the web. But if I don't know what data sheet
I want, then a data book is going to be a lot easier for me.
Recently I had a 40 pin LC with a Motorola logo and a house number. I
could identify some of the connectiosn (power, data bus) on the board it
was part of. I susepcted it was a microcontroller (this later turned out
to be incorrect, BTW). Flipping through the applicable data books here
took a few minutes (and alas I didn't find anything that made sense). I
then spent an hour or more looking on the data sheet archive sites and
eventually identified it. But it took a lot more time to do that than it
would have done if I'd had that data hseet on paper.
So, yes, the archive sites were very useful, in that I got the data in
the end. But it would have been a lot easier if I'd had the data books on
paper.
Tony, I don't mean to be insulting here, but
it's simply ludicrous
to assume that all new developments are evil simply because they are
new. Dismissing things for that reason really is unbecoming of a
I never said that. What I said, and I stand by, is that I can't thinkl of
any new developemnt that has made _my_ life easier or better. I am very
happy to consider new developments.
person of your caliber. If you've ever actually
TRIED this, without
FWIW, I get information off the web all the time. Often it's the only way
I am going to get the information. But this doesn't mean it's the best
way I can think of.
going into it under the assumption that it will fail
(and thus
finding a way to make it fail), making these sorts of statements is
just plain silly. There's a whole world of engineers out there, some
of whom are even almost as good as you are, who AREN'T hampered into
uselessness because downloadable PDF files have largely replaced
printed databooks.
The point is (at least for me) if you don';t know something is likely to
exist, you're not going to spend time looking for it. I really don't ahve
the time to look at every manufacturer's web site to see if there happens
to be a chip that does what I want (as I keep on pointing out, 'flipping
through pdf's takes an order of magnatude longer -- at least -- than
'flippiong throuhg books'). I'll stick to what I know will do the job.
Btu many times with the paper data books I've thought 'Now that's a nice
feature' and I've rememebred that Motorola or whoever make a chip that
does something that's useful. And when I find I need that feautre, I
rememebr which book it's in (even If I can't rememebr the number, I can
probalby rememebr the basic functionality, so I am going to find said
data sheet in a couple of minures)..
Maybe you enjoy downloading one pdf after another and readingthem. I,
alas, don't. I'll do it if I have to, but not if I don't.
I am a book fanatic. I have a library in my house that contains
well over a thousand books. NONE of them are fiction...they're all
technical books. I love them. I also have a big shelf full of
FWIW, me too. Actually way more than 1000.
databooks, maybe 30-35 of them that I keep around, and
about a
hundred more in the closet that I haven't used in years. I LOVE
books. I'm just as much of a book curmudgeon as you are. But now
that mostly everything is available electronically, I find it FAR FAR
FAR faster and easier to access it that way.
For me it depends on what I want it for.
And if I REALLY want it on paper, which I often do, I just print it.
in
seconds, rather than having to wait for weeks to find a copy of a
databook that I don't have. I have nearly three thousand PDF
There are 2 issues here.
Firstly, there are components that I have used for which I can't
find the
data sheets in any archive on the web. An example would be the SAA5070
(and yes it is used in classic computers). OK, _current_ device data
sheets are probably available, but I wonder if anyone is archiving
those.
I do, whenever I download one. Data storage is cheap, I have
effectively unlimited data storage capacity here, so I keep them.
And there will always be chips for which there's no documentation
available. That problem is NOT specific to electronic formats!
Ture enough, the obvious example being a custom device. But what worries
me is when a device was a standard part, the data sheet was publisehd,
but nobody botheres to archive it. And then 20 years later somebody
needs that data sheet.
The second issue is that yes, I will agree that
being able to download
data wheets is a Good Thing. But that doesn't mean this has to
_replace_
data books. It is a very common falacy that because <a> is better than
<b> for some application, it has to be better for all applications
[1].
I don't think anyone ever said that. But you've been implying
that PDF datasheets are USELESS, to EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME, FOREVER,
and that they might just be the root of all evil.
I never said that. I simply stated that _for me_ it's a lot harder to see
what interesting devices are availalbe if I don't have a printed data
book.
And as for 'wait a few weeks', when I was
buing databooks about 10
or 20
years ago, they generally came next day. Quite a few companies also
kept
archives of their old data sheets and would send a hptocopy next day
(free or for a nominal charge).
When I was buying them 10 or 20 years ago, it took a few weeks,
unless I was working for an organization that, for some reason, had
the attention of a semiconductor manufacturer sales-droid who would
bend over backwards in the hopes of getting a million-unit sale.
Perhaps things are better in the UK in that department.
I was cleaerly very lucky, then. I wasn't an organisation at all, just a
hobbyist or student. But just about every manufacturer I tried would send
me a copy of the data sheet (no matter how old) next day. And if I asked
about a data book, they would normally quote a price, I'd post them a
cheque (I didn't ahve a credit card back then) and they'd sent it to me,
noramlly without waitign for the cheque to clear.
Not all change is automatically bad.
True, but I think this one is. And I am actually still trying to
think of
a change in the last 20 years that's been for the better...
Oh good heavens.
Well, OK, please name one change in the last 20 years that has made _my_
life better.
-tony