Subject: Re: Q-bus to CF [was: IOmega]
From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:58:34 -0700
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
der Mouse wrote:
>>> Some time back (years), someone was working on an IDE interface for
>>> a Qbus MicroVAX and I was doing the driver. [...]
>
>>> We never got it working, and it is not clear to me, now, why not.
>>> [...] what memory I have indicates that there were hardware issues,
>
>> the likely reason is PDP-11 and VAX does read before write and IDE
>> does not like that.
>
> Huh? The only sense I can think of in which the PDP-1 and VAX could be
> said to do read before write is in the bus transaction sense, and
> anything that could be called "IDE" was insulated from bus
FYI in the bus transaction sense is what counts as the device in this
case the IDE disks sees that. The fix is simple isolate reads and
writes. When I say bus I'm talking physical hardware interface not
the "software" interface or other hardware abstactions.
In the VAX case the Qbus or Ubus behaves the same as PDP11 even if
the read is thrown away.
> transactions. While the card didn't have much
smarts, it did have that
> much; it looked enough like a wdc that I did the driver as an "attach
> wdc at uba with wdc_uba" attachment layer, rather than a completely new
> driver. I find I still have my copy of the dev directory, including a
> boot-time console log:
Doesnt need smarts. It only has to look like an SL! you have a series
of about 8 registers, some read, some write and some are read/write
for example the data register. Any incidental reads or writes to the
data register during a transfer is unexpected and messes with the
IDE (DISK) internal smarts. So the logic has to make that bunch or
registers look like distinct read and write addresses that do not
overlap. Thats why the serial line interfaces for U and Q buses
need 4 addresses, Control write, Data write, Status read and Data read.
Well if my SBC6120 ( PDP 8 Clone) can have a IDE
interface
why not some other PDP. We are not looking for high speed
just hardware in this case.
Right, however it has to be done right or it doesn't work. Bob
understands that designed accordingly.
The read before write problem is important to status and data registers
becuase if you touch them at the wrong time (like an incidental read
when you mena to write) the devices internal logic is slightly messed up.
The fix and even DEC does things for DL devices (and others) is that
the write is gated to one set of addresses and the read is to another.
Adds a little logic but nothing complex.
Allison