7 Feb
2004
7 Feb
'04
10:19 a.m.
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:43:24 -0800
From: Ron Hudson <ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: waaa! Ebay Pollymorphic 88 Item number: 2784817061
To: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com>om>, "General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <5861EA42-58D4-11D8-A773-000393C5A0B6(a)sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Dwight,
Do you still have the original documentation for the ROM monitor?
Any way you could scan it?
pretty please?
I used to have a Polly 88, I was in the Navy on a destroyer, and
it was not a good environment for an s100 computer, When the ship
was at sea, it would rock back and forth a lot and my s100 would
suffer from "impact poisoning", Finally I traded my polly 88 for
an HP41C/Card Reader that was a bit more robust.
Ron
ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net
On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:51 AM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote:
When I read this, I took it to mean the Variac was a preferred method
for
turning on equipment *after* the caps had been reformed, as a matter of
routine. (Otherwise it made no sense to me, based on what I know of
reformation.) That may not be a good idea, but I couldn't dismiss it
out of
hand.
I reference <http://www.nichicon.com/english/lib/alminium.pdf>, and
excellent overview of aluminum capacitors...
The controlling parameter in reforming a capacitor is the amount of
heat generated. Generate too much and you blow things up. We have to
consider two cases: the capacitor is in circuit, or out of circuit.
In the latter case, the recommended method of reforming is by applying
the forming voltage through a limiting resistor and then letting the
capacitor form at voltage over a period of time with the limiting
resistor in circuit. As commented above, the current should be
monitored, but the critical term is the final leakage current. If it is
out of spec, there is nothing you can do... A capacitor manufacturer
used to be in town and they had to monitor old stock for mil spec
reasons. Their criteria for reforming old stock was a case temp rise of
no more than 5 degrees C and the leakage current had to be in spec in
less than 10 minutes.
An old electrolytic that takes a long time to reform has probably lost
electrolyte and should be considered suspect (its ESR is probably
miserable and capacitance below spec).
The case of in-circuit caps: With a lot of equipment, if you put it in
a brown-out condition, you can fry the silicon. Older switchers are
notorious for burning up when operated below their minimum voltage for
any length of time. In any case, when lighting equipment, the primary
concern is the front end caps. If the leakage current is substantial,
you will blow the fuse or take out the rectifier (valves don't have
this problem). By using a Variac to bring up the voltage over several
seconds, you mitigate the surge and allow initial reforming to take
place. If things go, you might as well replace the caps.
Depending on the power supply, caps down stream will either see the
operating voltage and have to "live" or, in the case where the power
supply current limits, will pull down the power supply until formed,
if . In the case of switchers, they have a tendency to *turn on* if
substantially over-rated (hey, remember we have been taught that it's
only current that counts ;<)).
So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working
with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few...
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:30:19 -0700
From: "ed sharpe" <esharpe(a)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic
andOff-Topic Posts"
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <002301c3ed3b$799977a0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes I know the wiring is rated at 600 but I have not seen any semi modern
gear that required it....
ed!
----- Original Message -----
From: <order(a)saracom.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic
andOff-Topic Posts"
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:45:30 -0800
From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com>
Subject: Re: Dec core mem on eBay
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <200402070545.i175jUMe011877(a)spies.com>
32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15,
or perhaps a PDP-9?
--
byte parity
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:56:50 -0500 (EST)
From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)panix.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12?
fixed!)
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0402070042140.7518(a)panix2.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, CRC wrote:
I'd guess a medium power laser.
--jc
End of cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 15
*************************************
--
Allan N. Hessenflow allanh(a)kallisti.com
Hi All
If someone on the list gets this, I have quite a bit of software
that I've collected for this machine. It looks like someone has
changed the machine to be a CPM machine. It looks to have both
the serial ( rs232/20mil ) and cassette interfaces. It seems to
be missing the video board ( where the keyboard would connect to ).
If someone gets this, I do have a spare video board that I might
be talked into trading for something else, if someone wanted to
bring it back to an original condition. I also have quite a
bit of documentation for the Poly88. It does require a parallel
keyboard to work with the video board ( As I recall all console
I/O can be revectored at boot using a ROM at 400h. This could
make the serial be the console but I don't think the debug
monitor is revectored ).
Although, the ROM's on the CPU starts at address 0000h, there
is a control bit that one can shadow the ROM and allow the machine
to exist in complete RAM. I can explain this to anyone that wants
to do so. The software I have is all Poly88 cassette based software.
I have an assembler, BASIC, many of the Poly demo programs and
I also have a ROM based tiny BASIC as well. I have also written
code to bootstrap a system from the serial port ( does require
the system debug monitor to function ).
Dwight
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:26:27 -0000
From: "Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
Subject: Merlin Tonto monitor update
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <E1ApBan-0000lE-0V(a)anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evenin' UK folks, afternoon US folks :)
I've just stripped down the Tonto monitor that was screeching and I was
amazed and not a little alarmed to discover that the HT lead to the tube had
physically come away!
How the hells can that happen when it's just been sitting on a shelf? After
appearing in the pix on my Tonto page it went back downstairs and sat on the
floor of the storage room for a few months before I found shelf space to put
it on!
Weird.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:14:40 +0100 (MET)
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Subject: *grunt*
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0402062113470.13947-100000(a)unibus.pdp11.nl>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout
cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one
in my AP...
*bah*
--f
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:29:38 +0100 (MET)
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Subject: Re: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0402062129160.13947-100000(a)unibus.pdp11.nl>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote:
From: "Ron Hudson"
<ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net>
And I am between jobs :^(
GCC 2.95 has serious problems corss compiling
across the LP32 / LP64
boundary. I can say this out of my own experience as a NetBSD hacker.
Not relevant
for the -11 backend :)
--f
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:33:59 +0000
From: meltie <lists(a)microvax.org>
Subject: Re: *grunt*
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>rg>, "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Message-ID: <200402062034.00301.lists(a)microvax.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC
RoamAbout
cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one
in my AP...
Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs.
US versions?
Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;)
alex/melt
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:39:37 +0100 (MET)
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Subject: Re: *grunt*
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0402062137160.13947-100000(a)unibus.pdp11.nl>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, meltie wrote:
On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van
Kempen wrote:
Basically, the 2.4G cards using FH did not yet use the more or
less standardized channels, since they werent there yet. Instead,
different sets of usable channels were defined for each of the
various (mostly non-US) countries, making them largely incomatible
because of that :(
What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to re-blast a single
image into all of these critters- obviously, their hardware is
exactly the same, its just the software settings...
Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC
RoamAbout
cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one
in my AP...
Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs.
US versions? Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;)
I might, eventually..
--f
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:25:46 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian
Filter detected spam
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4024065A.AC936305(a)compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Brian Mahoney wrote:
(I hope this attaches to my first post. My first
attempt came up as a
separate post. )
The standalone list is at this site :
http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm
The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here :
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm
From: "Brian Mahoney" <brianmahoney(a)look.ca>
To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: Computer Collectors List - update
For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors on my home
page and for the last year I have had a specific site at another url. The
list has over 40 names on it. Besides listing the collectors and their
contact information (well, most of them anyway) there is an email address
for the list itself and I send out emails to list whenever I get a query
about donations or sales.
Ok, so far so good. The problem is that I don't have email addresses for
everyone on the list. Also, there may be members of this group who would
like to be on the list. Therefore :
1. Anyone who wants to be on the list, please send me an email at :
antiquecomputers(a)hotmail.com
Make sure you have a good email addy in your response. Thanks!
2. Anyone on the list who has not provided me with an email by March 1st
will be deleted from the list until an emaill address is provided.
Please don't respond to this post, unless it is to comment on the lists,
respond to : antiquecomputers(a)hotmail.com
Lastly, I assume that nearly everyone here has some sort of site on the web.
Mine has been up since 1995, relocated in 1997, and has spawned hundreds of
emails from all over the world. The list of collectors provides me with a
place to turn when I get leads about computers in Europe and the States.
Since I don't buy computers any more, only taking donations, any offers of
computers for sale or from locations outside of metro Toronto that are sent
to my home page email adress, are sent to the members of the list. ALL
requests to the antiquecomputers(a)hotmail.com email address are re-sent to
members of the list. Hope this makes sense !
Jerome Fine replies:
Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that
I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to
make it backward compatible?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:41:02 -0000
From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini(a)iee.org>
Subject: RE: *grunt*
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <004a01c3ecf9$ec85cf30$5b01a8c0@athlon>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to
re-blast a
single image into all of these critters- obviously, their
hardware is exactly the same, its just the software settings...
The new (802.11b) firmware was available from Cabletron
and/or DNPG. But the firmware you seem to have (the
pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder
to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available
on the web years ago). So you want to find some
way of preserving it before you go overwriting it.
(Always assuming there *is* some way of getting
it off again).
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:10:10 +0100 (MET)
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Subject: RE: *grunt*
To: arcarlini(a)iee.org, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0402062307500.12807-100000(a)unibus.pdp11.nl>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote:
The new (802.11b) firmware was available from
Cabletron
and/or DNPG.
Yes.
But the firmware you seem to have (the
pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder
to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available
on the web years ago).
Yes, that was apparent. The real question is.. how/where
do
we find it.
So you want to find some
way of preserving it before you go overwriting it.
(Always assuming there *is* some way of getting
it off again).
The tools they used to localize the generic cards by blasting
a set of {firmware+settings} would be needed. I assume this
was done by DEC, not Ctron, so I'll just have to find someone
who knows about it and bother to no end...
--f
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:51:33 -0500
From: "BowlARoll" <bowlarol(a)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes
To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <000801c3ecf3$01813980$86d8d518@BOWLAROLL>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello:
Are these tapes available and at what cost? You can reach me at 585-427-7250. Thanks.
20 Imation DC2000 40meg
BillFrom cctalk-admin Fri Feb 6 13:03:59 2004
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Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700
From: "ed sharpe" <esharpe(a)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots!
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet?
110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm.....
I use it all the time but in a non-standard
application. I do AC power fault simulation on
Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard
off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer
friend.
Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a
delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or
577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most
of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac.
Max
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:19:18 +0100 (MET)
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
Subject: *blush (RE: *grunt*)
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0402070014220.12807-100000(a)unibus.pdp11.nl>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hrrm.
You know... sometimes it *really* helps to ask a woman whether
you still look OK or not.....
I basically realized, that *although* the RoamAbout card *did*
see the access point, it did not get any traffic through. That
is, hmm, odd.
... until it daunted upon me. "AHEM. Is the segment on which
the AP resides, actually connected to the backbone????"
So.. I ran upstairs, and sure enough... the BNC connector from
that segment was unplugged from the DEMPR. Waaaaah!
Why? Well, I had a weird problem here when I was in the U.S.,
and I had my jump-in sys admin disconnect all networks that were
not needed for core operations.... :(
So there. It works now. At least the UK and DE/NL versions of
the RoamAbout cards *do* talk together. They both hate the U.S.
card, though....
Cheers,
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:39:18 -0500 (EST)
From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)panix.com>
Subject: Dec core mem on eBay
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0402061834130.13021(a)panix2.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else
bid on it...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&categ…
Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine
Room wall....
Cheers
John
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:42:16 -0500
From: "Brian Mahoney" <brianmahoney(a)look.ca>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian
Filter detected spam
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0(a)look.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinexgs2(a)compsys.to>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian
Filter detected spam
> Brian Mahoney wrote:
I'm not
really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page.
I'll check the settings to see what comes up. I know that IE6 always says
'done but with errors' and what the heck that means, I'll never know. Let me
work on it.
B.M.
Jerome Fine replies:
Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that
I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to
make it backward compatible?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:24:22 -0500
From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <JLEJKJEAMDDFLNHBPHENOEHAEIAA.dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are
many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine.
David.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:39 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Dec core mem on eBay
I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else
bid on it...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&categ…
sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1
Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine
Room wall....
Cheers
John
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:42:08 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP2000/Access - (benchmarks)
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <003301c3ed1b$99953be0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Mike wrote....
Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-)
chains with timing for my
SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that real
hardware
would out perform it. If not I'll have to
think about what could be wrong
with
the simulator and come up with another test. Let
me know what you get,
Jay, next
time you have her up.
Chain test results on dual 2100(32Kw) 7906 drive
28 2
28 45
this should mean about 43 seconds
Notes:
1) This test really doesn't test much other than the disk drive data
transfer rate, cpu excercising is negligable.
2) An emulator should vastly outperform a real disk drive, especially
assuming "short cuts" are taken and internally the software isn't going
through the same steps the real hardware is.
Jay West
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:47:00 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <003901c3ed1c$4856a150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines, condition unknown (forgive me if
this is too recent for the list, I know nothing about them as to age).
They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes.. all different sizes...
some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to look for a particular
one?
Jay West
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:03:51 -0500 (EST)
From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)panix.com>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0402062050001.7518(a)panix2.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote:
John, hopefully you are joking about using this
card as "art". There are
many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine.
Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on.
If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only
half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they
have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW
stack, BTW...
I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very
rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of
legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of
volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for
'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved'
otherwise.
There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance,
who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and
minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters.
He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{}
In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition
is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get
it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall
in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough
of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a
look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for
a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core'
actually meant....
Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or
one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the
board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that
site, and I'd find another.
Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from
my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display
piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be.
Cheerz
John
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:39:51 -0500
From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <JLEJKJEAMDDFLNHBPHENAEHDEIAA.dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
John,
Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and
I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and
scrap".
My apologies.
David.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:04 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote:
John, hopefully you are joking about using this
card as "art". There are
many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine.
Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on.
If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only
half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they
have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW
stack, BTW...
I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very
rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of
legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of
volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for
'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved'
otherwise.
There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance,
who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and
minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters.
He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{}
In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition
is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get
it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall
in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough
of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a
look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for
a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core'
actually meant....
Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or
one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the
board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that
site, and I'd find another.
Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from
my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display
piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be.
Cheerz
John
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:51:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "O. Sharp" <ohh(a)drizzle.com>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0402061834350.9788-100000(a)drizzle.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Quoth John Lawson:
If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will
notice that this is only
half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they
have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW
stack, BTW...
32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15,
or perhaps a PDP-9?
[...] nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open,
and hang it on the wall
in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough
of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a
look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for
a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core'
actually meant....
Core memories are indeed beautiful. That is, until you have to find and
repair a bad connection on one... <cringe> ...well, okay, they're _still_
beautiful, but in an infinitely more frustrating sort of way. :)
I think it's amusing that there are computer people who have never seen or
worked with core memory. O'course, I also have coworkers who have never
owned a 33-1/3 record, and more recently coworkers who think the idea of a
telephone with a cord attached is antiquated. Damn. I _am_ getting old,
aren't I? :)
-O.-
...but then, I've never used a punch-card or a drum memory, so maybe I
_am_ young. :) :)
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:54:53 -0500 (EST)
From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)panix.com>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0402062144510.7518(a)panix2.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote:
John,
Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and
I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and
scrap".
Well I know. There's an original ad for the Bendix G-15 (I had one
once...) on eBay that I stopped bidding on after it got above $20... but
the high bidder's 'me' page says he's a preservationist, so we'll
see.
And I've missed many things over the years... "Oh, we thought that was
junk."
For example - I work in the same building as a manufacturing company
with dozens of metal-working machines. I'm good friends with the foreman,
who has been an NC and CNC master machinist for many years. I was telling
him about my collection - and he said, "Hey - you don't want an old
Flexowriter or two...? they're up on the shelf in my old shop in Palo
Alto."
Well you can imagine my response. BUT:
Long story short... they were tossed in the dumpster in September of
last year to make room for an upgraded phone system....
YYYAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ;{ GRRRRR...
So it's part and parcel of our Hobby... just because *I* see a rack of
PDP11 stuff in a certain light doesn't necessarily map onto the
conciousness of the poor schmoe who has to get it out of the warehouse and
onto the loading dock and into the roll-off before the scrap company shows
up to haul all that old shit away...
And thanks for your well-meant concern! Without us, there'd be no
LGP-20s, Bendix G-15s, Apple Is.... left in the world.
Cheers
John
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:59:49 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Atari available
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <004001c3ed26$7342e590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available, he held it for me cause
he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just
wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition
unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his
contact info.
Jay West
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:04:36 -0500
From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <JLEJKJEAMDDFLNHBPHENMEHDEIAA.dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
-0.-
Speaking of vinyl...Do you have any 78s or even better 16s? (I have about
40 from 1955 and earlier!)
If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent
lived!!!
===============================
John.
I know a person (local here on LI) who has 3x ASR-33, 1x ASR-43, 1x
Freiden Flexowriter (exact model unknown at this point).
All believed to be in working order.
The problem is that will only dig them out of storage for someone who will
take the entire lot. I have no interest in the Flexowriter (but would never
want to see one destroyed), and can really only use one of the ASR-33's. If
you would be interested in helping to split up the lot (he wants a fairly
high price, but if the quality is good....), please contact me off list.
==========================
David...
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:09:53 -0500
From: Curt Vendel <curt(a)atarimuseum.com>
Subject: Re: Atari available
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <40245701.9080408(a)atarimuseum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Thanks Jay, I have plenty of them, I'm going to pass.
Curt
Jay West wrote:
Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available,
he held it for me cause
he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just
wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition
unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his
contact info.
Jay West
--
Curt Vendel & Karl Morris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Atari Museum
http://www.atarimuseum.com
The Atari Explorer
http://www.atari-explorer.com
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:10:44 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: more on ibm paradise card
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <006201c3ed27$f9cf5d90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ok, took a closer look at the paradise card in my IBM 5150.
It's actually two full length boards, stacked together with standoffs. The
"main" board has on the back bracket (from top to bottom), a two position
slide switch, a DE9, an RCA jack, and another DE9. Has a sticker saying
"DM104338", I'm guessing a serial number maybe. Etched on the board is
"Assy
15100".
On the second board in the stack, it says "Paradise Systems, Inc." and
"Multidisplay card". Silkscreened on the board is "Assy 15200", and
"CADAC
M01". Also has a sticker, "DM504338", and here's the kicker... hanging
off
this full length "daughter card" is a ribbon cable that goes to a 2nd
bracket with a DB25F connector, I would guess parallel port.
From googling on the net, best I can decipher
(VERY little info on it), it
may be a combo MDA/CGA card.
Can anyone fill in any more info?
Jay West
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:12:43 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <006a01c3ed28$4103d1f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If you never dropped a box on unmarked,
non-sequenced cards, you havent
lived!!!
If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;)
I'm a young 39, and I HAVE programmed on punched cards, both on an IBM 24 I
think it was, submitting programs to VM/CMS/HASP, and also on an HP2000C &
HP2000/Access :)
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:08:36 -0500
From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <JLEJKJEAMDDFLNHBPHENKEHFEIAA.dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> If you never dropped a box on unmarked,
non-sequenced cards, you havent
>> lived!!!
>If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;)
I was not referring to un-punched cards, but rather to cards that contained
ordered data (such as program source without line numbers) which had not
been marked with a pen/pencil/crayon diagonally across the top of the deck.
Without the mark, sorting out the cards was virtually impossible. At least
with a diagonal mark each card would have a short line on the top edge.
Cards from the front of the deck would have the line on the left, cards from
the back on the right. This gave a quick method of getting the cards back
into order. A card that was out of sequence would show rather quickly when
the deck was re-assembled.
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:00:50 +0100
From: "Nico de Jong" <nico(a)farumdata.dk>
Subject: Re: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <002101c3ed37$5bab19f0$2201a8c0@finans>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Are these tapes available and at what cost? You
can reach me at
585-427-7250. Thanks.
20 Imation DC2000 40meg
Bill
I have at least 10 DC2120 tapes from Mitsubishi available, all new AFAIR
We can discuss the price. Dont forget the Postage
Nico
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:29:03 -0700
From: CRC <technobug(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!)
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:47:34 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival
<vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
One second? I've always been told to do this
over the course of at
least
a couple hours in 5V increments.
If I can be doing this in a much quicker time then I'd really like to
know
about it.
[...]
And on Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:04:52 -0500 (EST), ohn Lawson
<jpl15(a)panix.com> also wrote:
Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years
experience, to reform
funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour,
depending on
many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one
second,
it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with.
But the thing most folks forget is to somehow monitor the *current*
being drawn during the Process of Reformation.
Here endeth the Lesson.
Also at Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:12:53 -0800, "vrs" <vrs(a)msn.com>
commented:
One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at
least
a couple hours in 5V increments.
Again - it depends on the voltage/capacity of the filters involved,
and
just how "bad" gthey are. One simply cannot place an arbitrary
voltage/time delta on all power supplies.
The Ammeter (or it's analog) is here your friend.
>>>
>>
To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth
>> and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the
>> voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to
>> re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized
Variac.
> You
power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the
> operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or
Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform
funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour,
depending on
many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one
second,
it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. Message:
21
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700
From: "ed sharpe" <esharpe(a)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots!
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet?
110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm.....
I use it all the time but in a non-standard
application. I do AC power fault simulation on
Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard
off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer
friend.
Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a
delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or
577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most
of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac.
Max
So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working
with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few...
[finds reading glasses, Geritol, don't need teeth... lessee here]
Waaaallll.... no duh! BUT: I was preaching to the congregation, not the
choir.
You and I probably can deliver chapter and verse on the care and feeding
of fundamental components, their history and evolution, physics,
chemistry, mechanics and electronics of them... no doubt.
But a lot of folks on the list (most of the folks on the List) are not EEs
or MSEs or PhDEs... and we have a very mixed approach to actual
'electronics' - from those who have long careers behind them in design and
implementation of electronic circuits and devices - to those to whom
electricity is a mystery, an unknown field.
So when it is stated in simple language that one can form/reform
questionable electrolytics in 'one second' with a Variac (or whatever) -
this is exposing people to danger and property to damage, IMHO.
That's the point I was trying to make - that there is no 'general case'
when bringing up gear with long inop times - and that one cannot prescribe
a fixed time span to reform the caps in a (linear) power supply by the
Variac method, unless one is aware of the various other points you bring
up.
And of course you're spot-on in reference to SMPSUs - 'brown' input
voltages will often kill 'em dead.
And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an
exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank?
It's LOUD......
;}
Cheers
John
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:15:30 -0800 (PST)
From: SHAUN RIPLEY <vax3900(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <20040207061530.91584.qmail(a)web60704.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Why not grab them all and put them on Ebay. There are
other groups of people who collect old tubes. I
personally have a tube radio... It is junk in their
eyes though (it is an AA5). I know that people are
looking for 300B tubes, and some other big tubes. Do
them a favor, save those tubes.
vax3900
--- Jay West <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines,
condition
unknown (forgive me if
this is too recent for the list, I know nothing
about them as to age).
They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes..
all different sizes...
some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to
look for a particular
one?
Jay West
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 01:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: der Mouse <mouse(a)Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12?
fixed!)
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <200402070634.BAA00287(a)Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the
same room with an
exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank?
It's LOUD......
Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my
arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or
even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang!
What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun?
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:34:48 -0500
From: "J.C. Wren" <jcwren(a)jcwren.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <40249518.3080703(a)jcwren.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
der Mouse wrote:
And
speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an
exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank?
It's LOUD......
Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my
arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or
even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang!
What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun?
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B