23 Mar
2006
23 Mar
'06
10:50 a.m.
At 03:27 PM 3/23/06 -0800, you wrote:
On 3/23/2006 at 4:31 PM Joe R. wrote:
Since he asked what was the first 8086/8088 computer I'd say that it does
count. However I noticed that the discussion quickly shifted to HOME
computers and ignored development systems and other COMMERCAIL systems.
I don't know--I didn't invent this game. Who came out
Why do you say that??? Intel developed the
8088 and 8086 so I'd find
it
surprising if anyone else beat them to the market
with a computer based on
those CPUs.
Yes, the MDS with the 8086 board in it was very early, no doubt about
it--and I said so (having used one when it came out).
But here starts the hair-splitting. Does a development system targeted for
developers count? with the first Z80 computer?
Probably the Zilog ZDS IMO. But most people have never heard of them so
they'll vote for the IMSAI, Compupro or whatever they happened to have had.
Speaking of Z-80s, I have a COOL Z-80 system. It's a Dolch something. It
has plugins for burning EPROMs, Logic Analyzer, pattern generator and other
functions. It runs MPM and has SEVEN Z-80s! It can run up to 16 processes
simulatanously and pass data from one process to another. In one example
that they give, you can have one operating the LA and another disassembling
the data from it and another outputing the data to a printer and another
operting the disk drives. It's a COOL system. I've figured out a lot of it
but I'd love to find a manual for it.
Joe
IIRC, there were isolated S-100 cards before
there were complete systems--do they count as
computers?
Or, to put an even finer edge on it, was the first V20 computer created by
the first guy to replace the 8088 in his PC with one?
In retrospect, things happened pretty quickly back then. We'd like to
think that the IBM PC with 64K and one floppy was supplanted by the XT with
its hard disk, but in fact, for a time, both were being advertised and sold
by IBM (along with the PC Jr.).
Cheers,
Chuck
Contrary to popular opinion, Intel build complete Single Board
replacement
computers and even COMPLETE computers* and not
just ICs and experimenter
boards. The Series III MDS from Intel was a Series II MDS model 2xx with
the addition of a 8086 or 8088 processor card. I STRONGLY suspect that
these were THE first 8086/8088 based computers. Not only because Intel had
a head start on everyone else but also because these WERE Development
systems and they were intended for use in designing/building/testing other
computer designs. Somewhere in my literature I amy have a date for the
8088/8088 cards for the MDS systems but I know the MDS 2xx itself
definitely predates the 8088/8086 and all it would have taken Intel to do
to be the first on the market would be to design one additional card.
FWIW I also have another computer that probably comes CLOSE to being
the
first 8086 computer on the market. It's
Rubicon computer and it uses an
8086 CPU with an 8089 IO Processor, a (mumble-mumble) ECC memory
controller
from Intel and 256k of bank-switched memory. It
runs CPM-86 amd it's
design
appears to come straight out of the Intel data
books. It's the only
computer other than an Intel that I've ever seen that uses the 8089 IO
processor and that ECC memory controller.
*I personally have three Series III MDS machines and at least a dozen
Intel 86/330 computers. the 86/330 is a complete computer and uses a 8086
CPU.
Joe
(although I do recall seeing pictures of
>>multibus type boxes with an Intel monniker, so things
>>like that could possibly qualify). I suppose even a
>>sbc could qualify, or even some sort of add-on for an
>>established system. But sdks from Intel (or others)
>>dont. Seattle Gazelle? What about 80186 firsts? 80286?
>>I know the popular conception is that Compaq built the
>>first 386 desktop, but I seem to recall ALR being
>>numero uno (pretty sure it was ALR).
>
>I think the distinction for 8086 may be Altos or one of the other S-100
>makers, although Intel may have had a card for the MDS even before that.
>Bill Godbout had his 85-88 card considerably before the PC.
>
>As for the 80186/80286, we were debugging pre-release engineering samples
>of both chips at Durango (I still remember the bug where DMA activity
>would clobber the DI register). For sure, the 80186 Poppy rolled out
very
early. I
don't think any 80286 versions were delivered until the Xenix
port got finished. But there was a socket on the board for one before
that--just nothing to run on it.
By the time of the 386, Mobo profiles had pretty much standardized for
PCs,
>so I suspect someone like Mylex may have had the first motherboard, but I
>don't know if that counts as a "computer". The PS/2 386 boxes were
also
>out fairly early--didn't the Model 50 have a bug that required >of the mobo?
>
>Cheers,
>Chuck
>
>