27 Oct
1999
27 Oct
'99
9:16 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: gauging interest in VAX 6000-530
limited
> >I can perhaps help with the 'lure'.
For me, speed is not that important
> >(provided it's fast enough for _what I want to do_). What is important
is
> >having a reliable machine that I can
understand, repair, and keep going.
> >And I find it a _lot_ easier to keep a PDP11 or an old VAX running than
> >to keep a PC running.
>
> Yikesl I eliminated our Vax for PCs years ago and have never had any
> problems! Vax was a "breakdown" nightmare... slower than NT for
filesharing
Strange... My minicomputers (admittedly a lot older than the VAX you were
probably running) seem to be reliable. I've had a lot more PC problems to
sort out (despite having fewer PCs than minis).
With minicomputers, I understand them well enough to _really_ find the
fault and then fix it. That means it stays fixed. With PCs, most people
swap a card or something and the fault goes away, only to come back a
week or a month later (This is not an exaggeration. I've had faults that
disapear for a week if you do _anything_ to the machine. But they sure as
heck do come back. Normally they're a dry joint _somewhere_). I don't
beleive a machine is fixed unless I can demonstrate what caused the fault
(i.e. the bad component, dry joint, etc) and explain why it did what it
did. Only then do I know the problem won't come back. And it doesn't!
We don't have that. I standardized our hardware and no one is allowed to add
anything to their computer. For the price of PC... if I find REAL lemon
(constant problems) then I will throw it in the garbage. Most problems are
quickly dealt with (I am not tech support - I am the Director of Research
and Development)
> and DEC couldn't get "AppleTalk" right either. We found MAC IIs much
faster
even. (I
toasted all the MACs in '96).
Vax - Costly mother, boards expensive, service/software/license costs
[...]
> >Strange. I find the older machines are lot easier to understand than the
> >more modern ones. And _much_ better documented.
> >
>
> Thats not strange. Old systems USUALLY had parts and boards from a > number of vendors, heavily tested... How many
garages are knocking out
video
These 2 comments (the one above the deletion and this one) make me think
that you only regard computers down to the board level. I don't. I go
down to _at least_ the gate level and sometimes beyond.
On fun time - sure... or If a hard drive has serious data on it that was NOT
backed up by a user/MPP then I WILL take a whole day to go through the drive
and save the data.... but I sure won't waste the taxpayers dollars pissing
around with a schematic when I am supposed to be designing/managing a
project which makes us cost effective. There is no advantage to any employer
to have a skilled engineer fixing old broken stuff when he could be making a
company profit through designs.
What this means is, when I have a fault I don't
start looking for a new
board. I put the appropriate module on the extender, probe a bit with a
LogicDart and find the dead chip. And change it. And I'll probably have
it fixed before you've ordered a new board. And I'll almost certainly
I doubt that very much. We have every possible board/drive in stock in many
quantities for our entire line of PCs. If a unit goes down it's up very
quickly or replaced.
Many companies are tossing VAXes as they cannot afford to have a good chunk
of the company down while someone is "probing" a board. That was cool in the
70s but we have reached a point where it is unacceptable to have anyone
off-line for very long (much less an entire area).
I can't even begin to tell you the number of companies I have helped toss
their Vax junk for an NT/Novell set up.
have it fixed before the new board has arrived.
I do REPAIR AT THE GATE LEVEL here at home, on bad HDs on sites I support
(through consulting on the side) and in rebuilding old minis for collectors
for cash (a PDP 11/05 at the gate level last month, 8/s at the transistor
level this month). Again, for fun. I spend some of my time at work designing
at the gate level, I wouldn't waste a minute opening a bad monitor...
john
-tony